Cerilian Dragons?

[Fizz]

There is a character in Ruins of Empire (pg 74) that might be a template for the "type" of PC you want. Teodre Profiev, a paladin of Haelyn with a major Azrai bloodline. I think there is another character listed with an Azrai bloodline that he is "fighting" - I just can't remember who or where he was listed.

Nadia Vasily perhaps? It's mentioned as a rumor that she wishes to kill him...

-Fizz

[Starmage21]

Alright which true blooded Azrai awnsheigh? There are only a few of those and they are all specifically listed. Remember that in the early days Azrai's scions fed off of each other, which is why there are so few of the higher blooded ones.

Second, using the BRCS sanctioned Ch 2 mechanics this really should not be all that possible.

If your PC started out with a True Anduiras bloodline - which aspect of the deity was the PC most closely associated with?

There would have been tremendous stories of his greatness in battle and leadership prior to Deismaar. That would put him on par with Haelyn and Roele as far as status goes. This means that the Gogon would have targeted him preferentially very early on since the PC would have represented someone that his "brothers" had a powerful pier/ally.

This is one of the reasons why it is a really bad idea to allow a PC to have a True bloodline - it requires a large rewrite in the established history of the setting. All characters with True bloodlines should be significant to the history of the setting.

There is a character in Ruins of Empire (pg 74) that might be a template for the "type" of PC you want. Teodre Profiev, a paladin of Haelyn with a major Azrai bloodline. I think there is another character listed with an Azrai bloodline that he is "fighting" - I just can't remember who or where he was listed.

Sounds like a good reason to go sleep in the mountains for 1000+ years. He knows he's going to have to deal with The Gorgan if he catches wind of his bloodline strength.
Actually, he has more to worry about from The Spider, whom he is much closer to. The Gorgan's domain is on the other side of the continent at the moment.

[Mikal]

Alright which true blooded Azrai awnsheigh? There are only a few of those and they are all specifically listed. Remember that in the early days Azrai's scions fed off of each other, which is why there are so few of the higher blooded ones.

I dunno, one of the many who died out over the last 800 or so years. It occured several centuries ago, thanks to my long life. All the ones specifically listed are the ones presumed to still be alive

Second, using the BRCS sanctioned Ch 2 mechanics this really should not be all that possible.



[LEFT]
If your PC started out with a True Anduiras bloodline - which aspect of the deity was the PC most closely associated with?

Mostly the war part, noble battle and all. And the lawful aspect of his alignment, which carried over when he became Awnsheigh.

There would have been tremendous stories of his greatness in battle and leadership prior to Deismaar. That would put him on par with Haelyn and Roele as far as status goes. This means that the Gogon would have targeted him preferentially very early on since the PC would have represented someone that his "brothers" had a powerful pier/ally.

There IS. Which is why when he became Awnsheigh he changed his name, not wishing for others to know of his past, and thus perhaps tie him towards that line. He wants to be famous, but he doesn't want those who can easily kill him (i.e. the gorgon) to know he's still around.

This is one of the reasons why it is a really bad idea to allow a PC to have a True bloodline - it requires a large rewrite in the established history of the setting. All characters with True bloodlines should be significant to the history of the setting.

No it doesn't. It just requires a little bit of work between GM and PC.

[gazza666]

I have to say that from the looks of things here we play very differently to some of you.

I've run two Birthright games (back in 2nd ed) and I've participated in 2 others (including the current one), and in precisely zero cases did we even care what the "established history" or "existing true bloodlines" were. Our approach is to use the maps, use the general background, and then basically throw out the existing NPC regents and replace them with those of our own creation. We kept the Gorgon and the Spider, I think, but that's about it - I'm actually surprised that they're even given stats (since that logically means that they can be killed, and they work better as plot devices than monsters).

It sounds as if Starmage is playing this way; if so, those of you arguing that there "aren't any available" true bloodlines are missing his point. Indeed, that's taking the canon to suspiciously close to White Wolf metastory levels, which is rather silly IMO.

To me, Birthright is basically a game about playing PC regents. The rest of it is all just window dressing, which can and should be discarded by anyone that has the urge to do things their own way. I see absolutely no reason not to allow PC true bloodlines any more than I would restrict PC epic levels or (for that matter) PC divine ascension; there's no point in having rules for something if it's NPC only, since the DM can (by definition) have NPCs do whatever they like. Rules are only needed when PCs get involved; why not let the players get the cool toys?

[irdeggman]

To me, Birthright is basically a game about playing PC regents. The rest of it is all just window dressing, which can and should be discarded by anyone that has the urge to do things their own way. I see absolutely no reason not to allow PC true bloodlines any more than I would restrict PC epic levels or (for that matter) PC divine ascension; there's no point in having rules for something if it's NPC only, since the DM can (by definition) have NPCs do whatever they like. Rules are only needed when PCs get involved; why not let the players get the cool toys?

And that is where some people differ.

To a lot of us (most actually) Birthright is not just Forgotten Realms with a domain level of play (and bloodlines). It is like saying that Dark Sun is merely a desert world.

It is a complete setting with a history and many core consepts that are defined by that setting.

This is, to many people, one of the bad things about 3.x and the "new WotC", that is the propensity to make things extremely "generic" and not specific to a setting.

Take Eberron for instance. I love the setting, but it has gone way out to make sure that "everything in D&D has a place". They even went so far as to include how to incorporate the psionic races from the Expanded Psionics books (Elans are degenerate kalashtar). Too much generalism.

The fact that Birthright was a flavorful setting is what has kept this board and mailserv alive for as long as it has.

Having said that - everything you appear to be wanting to do with your PC can easily be accomplished via using a Great bloodline instead of a True one. It also keeps things consistent with "established history", keeps your PC from having been hunted down by the Gorgon (which would have happened, despite any rationalization being applied - the combination of true bloodline and having been a champion of Anduiras and thus a strong compatriot of the Gorgon's sworn enemies (his 1/2 brothers)).


There are certain key events that define the entire setting - the following being the 2 most significant that would apply to your case in specific.

The death of the old gods (re: Mt Deismaar).

The rise and death of Michael Roele.

If your PC was what is claimed to be - how did he tie into Michael Roele's existance? As true champion of Anduiras then he should have been a strong (and visable) ally to Michael. When Michael died he should have been a very highly visible and contender for the Iron Throne. In fact most of the polulace probably would have clamored for him to succeed Michael.

[Mikal]

There are certain key events that define the entire setting - the following being the 2 most significant that would apply to your case in specific.

The death of the old gods (re: Mt Deismaar).

The rise and death of Michael Roele.

If your PC was what is claimed to be - how did he tie into Michael Roele's existance? As true champion of Anduiras then he should have been a strong (and visable) ally to Michael. When Michael died he should have been a very highly visible and contender for the Iron Throne. In fact most of the polulace probably would have clamored for him to succeed Michael.

That's not neccesarily true. Not all people with such a bloodline would nessecarily feel the need to support Roele in a political setting. In fact the character was specifically APOLITICAL until he was taken over by Azrai. As for the Gorgon and the like trying to hunt them, who said they didn't try? When one isn't tied down to a place or people, but rather travels the world, almost aimlessly, to hunt down evil, it's kind of hard to pinpoint said person. Unless the Gorgon has a magic 'i see all bloodline strengths, derivations, and locations no matter what ability', which he doesn't.

[irdeggman]

That's not neccesarily true. Not all people with such a bloodline would nessecarily feel the need to support Roele in a political setting. In fact the character was specifically APOLITICAL until he was taken over by Azrai. As for the Gorgon and the like trying to hunt them, who said they didn't try? When one isn't tied down to a place or people, but rather travels the world, almost aimlessly, to hunt down evil, it's kind of hard to pinpoint said person. Unless the Gorgon has a magic 'i see all bloodline strengths, derivations, and locations no matter what ability', which he doesn't.

It comes down to how you envision bloodlines themselves.

If you are merely dropping bloodlines into a game that is not essentially a Birthright "setting" game then the history and meaning of bloodline strengths and derivations don't mean much.

If you are using the "setting" itself it has an entirely different reference. Bloodlines are more than just a means of getting blood abilities. That is also the call of all bloodlines - to be a regent and ruler. Bloodlines are more than just the ability to "have cool abilities". The greater the derivation strength the greater the call - see Book of Regency for some descriptions of how this works and the signature blood abilities discussion.

The adventure "Seeking Bloodsilver" and see what has been written about how the Gorgon seeks bloodlines (and tighmaervral). Read just about anything written in the 2nd ed material to get how the Gorgon feels the Iron throne and his “brothers”. The Sword of Roele adventure has some on this specifically and the novel the Iron Throne also paints the picture of the events that transpired.

[Mikal]

It comes down to how you envision bloodlines themselves.

If you are merely dropping bloodlines into a game that is not essentially a Birthright "setting" game then the history and meaning of bloodline strengths and derivations don't mean much.

If you are using the "setting" itself it has an entirely different reference. Bloodlines are more than just a means of getting blood abilities. That is also the call of all bloodlines - to be a regent and ruler. Bloodlines are more than just the ability to "have cool abilities". The greater the derivation strength the greater the call - see Book of Regency for some descriptions of how this works and the signature blood abilities discussion.

Except that not all blooded beings have a call to rule. They MAY have a call to do great or evil deeds, but not all scions are rulers of people. If you notice, I DID channel the call of the bloodlines, as a seeker and destroyer of evil, rather then a shepard. And eventually the character DID become a ruler, so the point you're trying to make is moot.

The adventure "Seeking Bloodsilver" and see what has been written about how the Gorgon seeks bloodlines (and tighmaervral). Read just about anything written in the 2nd ed material to get how the Gorgon feels the Iron throne and his “brothers”. The Sword of Roele adventure has some on this specifically and the novel the Iron Throne also paints the picture of the events that transpired.

That's nice. Again, doesn't mean he's going to have a magic spider sense that tingles whenever a blooded being is around. Especially when said blooded being is constantly moving, not only through countries but through continents, as the character's spent time in ALL the lands at one point or another.

[Fizz]

Sounds like a good reason to go sleep in the mountains for 1000+ years. He knows he's going to have to deal with The Gorgan if he catches wind of his bloodline strength.

That's nice. Again, doesn't mean he's going to have a magic spider sense that tingles whenever a blooded being is around. Especially when said blooded being is constantly moving, not only through countries but through continents, as the character's spent time in ALL the lands at one point or another.

I'm confused- first he was asleep in the mountains for a 1000+ years, then non-stop moving to avoid the Gorgon. Which was it?


-Fizz

[irdeggman]

Except that not all blooded beings have a call to rule. They MAY have a call to do great or evil deeds, but not all scions are rulers of people. If you notice, I DID channel the call of the bloodlines, as a seeker and destroyer of evil, rather then a shepard. And eventually the character DID become a ruler, so the point you're trying to make is moot.

I guess it comes down to answering the follwoing questions:

How does a scion get a True Bloodline?

Why was he singled out from all of the others in order to get it?

What does having a True Bloodline mean?

What makes it different than a Great, Major or Minor one?


The following are related since, IMO at least, having a True bloodline and having the Great Heritage template are very closely related. I also beleive that somewhere you had stated (or at least insinuated) that the PC in question had it.

What does the Great Heritage Template signify?

How does one acquire/lose it?

What does having it mean?

That's nice. Again, doesn't mean he's going to have a magic spider sense that tingles whenever a blooded being is around. Especially when said blooded being is constantly moving, not only through countries but through continents, as the character's spent time in ALL the lands at one point or another.

Never said there was a "spider sense". The Gorgon is also a high level wizard too. So once someone is known to have been strongly allied with his enemies and present at Deismaar (remember the close proximity thing - it is highly likely that the "survivors" who gained True bloodlines were within sight of each other since they were the greatest champions of their applicable deity) is pretty likely that he would seek out these "enemies". The Gorgon was afterall the greatest warrior in Anuire at the time of Deismaar and real close to the ruling family (bastard son and all of that).

The Gorgon is known to have hunted bloodlines so him hunting for an strong blooded enemy is not out of the question and very much in character for him.