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  1. #21
    IIRC the nearest thing I ever saw to a traditional golem in 2nd Ed Birthright was the Binman, a flesh golem (from the fluff) that became an Awnsheigh in the same lab accident that created the Chimaera.

    Wanna create a golem in Cerilia? OK. That knowledge was lost during the fall of the Anuirean Empire, or maybe earlier. Time to head off to some old Masetian ruins, or to the Chimaereon, or maybe the ancient empires of Aduria to rediscover the fabled techniques of infusing life into matter (in game terms it's a simple Manual of Golems, possibly preserved as an encoded fresco or mural in a static location).

    Get home, gather components, fork over the substantial GBs in creation costs, maybe substitute some bloodline strength for XP costs (hey, it's Cerilia and it's lost ancient magic) and expend the research actions to create. Expect every mage regent and magic-casting Awnsheighlen to want the knowledge for themself though.

    For a golem war unit? Repeat the above process 10 times or more, and expect some serious political repurcussions from your wartech drive, oh Beloved Leader Regent Kim.
    And watch out for that pesky Azrai taint, it gets everywhere.
    Last edited by bosssmiley; 07-14-2006 at 08:36 PM.

  2. #22
    Member Starmage21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosssmiley
    For a golem war unit? Repeat the above process 10 times or more, and expect some serious political repurcussions from your wartech drive, oh Beloved Leader Regent Kim.
    And watch out for that pesky Azrai taint, it gets everywhere.
    2 things:

    #1: LOL
    #2: a 3e golem (stone, iron, or greater stone) has sufficient strength to annihlate armies by itself. Cr 11 Stone Golem, CR 13 Iron Golem, and CR 16 Greater Stone Golem couldnt hope to be hurt any number of footsoldiers really with DR 15/Adamantine and a near complete immunity to magic.

  3. #23
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    A couple of things.

    Check the special material availability table. Adamantine is available in dwarven lands. It is not routinely (as in no where as common as in other D&D worlds) in other lands.


    Also whenever Chap 8 is redone it will include what was voted on before that the default will be that BRCS is a low-magic item world and not a variant that it is. My personal opinion on that one is to use the information in Complete Warrior and just up the gp cost of magic items (except for scrolls and potions) by 200-300%. This translates into increased gp material costs and a corresponding increase in the xp cost to manufacture magical items.
    Duane Eggert

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Starmage21
    2 things:

    #1: LOL
    #2: a 3e golem (stone, iron, or greater stone) has sufficient strength to annihlate armies by itself. Cr 11 Stone Golem, CR 13 Iron Golem, and CR 16 Greater Stone Golem couldnt hope to be hurt any number of footsoldiers really with DR 15/Adamantine and a near complete immunity to magic.
    That's where adventurers come in.

    Should Golems be immune to battle magic? How about realm magic?

  5. #25
    1st I would like to state that I only deal with 2nd ed so a few of my standards may be a little different than the third ed variation, but for the most part logic rules here, not just the rules.



    You all are still forgetting some very simple basics.
    1st, just exactly how high a level mage is required to produce a golem????? In 2nd ed it would be pretty much 14th level?? The only mages of that level are unsheighlen, and only 3 or 4 at that anyways. If I remember correctly golems would indeed be permanent magical creations and thus cost the mage a point of constitution (at least by 2nd ed standards). How many mages are going to give that up, figuring that the average mage only has about a 10 constitution to begin with. Especially considering again, that the golem can be very effectively neutralized on the battle field, especially with magic there. (I will argue that point later). Also lets remember the very nature of the Birthright world, very low magic. A +1 sword is suppose to be very significant, and very valuable.

    2nd, units are commanded by high level captains, which are, indeed with them on the battle field, thus, a 200 man unit is not just 200 0-level soldiers (assuming it's a new unit, if the unit has seen enough combat, they would be higher level). A unit of knights by its very nature is an entire unit of soldiers with weapon specialization, and very high level characters. The elite of the elite. The commanders of units of knights are going to be very well trained fighters and will with some reasonability, being nobles, have a magic weapon. Even in just regular units, these commanders are very skilled fighers, usually having specialization or even mastery, especially in the case of a unit of knights. Using the standard for military units, usually 10 men to a squad having a sgt which is roughly 3rd level, 5 squads to a platoon having a Lt usually 5th level, 4 platoons to a unit having a commander roughly 7th level. There are also varying levels of officers in between, ie a squad would have a corporal, etc. There are very capable soldeirs on that battle field, a 7th level fighter, perhaps even having mastery of a sword, 4 5th level Lts also specialized, etc. For the cost of a golem, 40 gb, give me 7 units of knights, just their commanders 7, 7th level weapon masters and you will see that golem fall indeed, not to mention all the other knights acompanying them.

    3rd, artillery can indeed target a single golem due to their size (assuming they are large or larger). And (again by 2nd ed system) artillery act as magical weapons for purposes of hitter creatures requiring magic weapons to damage them.

    4th and most importantly, mages and priests can still neutralize a golem very effectively without even targeting the golem itself and thus not even needing to consider its magic resistance. A dig spell, causing a very large hole under the golems feet is not subject to the golems magic resistance, nor would spells making large items fall on them, etc. etc. Transmute rock to mud would indeed completely neuralize the thing as well. Finally, (since I don't have my books handy due to moving) if I remember correctly, very few golems (if any) are completely immune to all forms of magic. Assuming that you allow mages to flow freely enough in your campaign to be able to create one in the first place, the opposition to the golems are likely to have similar magics at their disposal, and thus all kinds of ways of completely wasting that regents 40 gb. And no sane regent would be all his eggs in one basket.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorogood Roele
    1st I would like to state that I only deal with 2nd ed so a few of my standards may be a little different than the third ed variation, but for the most part logic rules here, not just the rules.



    You all are still forgetting some very simple basics.
    1st, just exactly how high a level mage is required to produce a golem????? In 2nd ed it would be pretty much 14th level?? The only mages of that level are unsheighlen, and only 3 or 4 at that anyways. If I remember correctly golems would indeed be permanent magical creations and thus cost the mage a point of constitution (at least by 2nd ed standards). How many mages are going to give that up, figuring that the average mage only has about a 10 constitution to begin with. Especially considering again, that the golem can be very effectively neutralized on the battle field, especially with magic there. (I will argue that point later). Also lets remember the very nature of the Birthright world, very low magic. A +1 sword is suppose to be very significant, and very valuable.
    Well in 3rd edition it's a little easier. You could be around 10th level or thereabouts and theoretically create a golem. It doesnt cost Con, but rather XP and gold, in this case one could probably use RP and GB to make the unit.

    2nd, units are commanded by high level captains, which are, indeed with them on the battle field, thus, a 200 man unit is not just 200 0-level soldiers (assuming it's a new unit, if the unit has seen enough combat, they would be higher level). A unit of knights by its very nature is an entire unit of soldiers with weapon specialization, and very high level characters. The elite of the elite. The commanders of units of knights are going to be very well trained fighters and will with some reasonability, being nobles, have a magic weapon. Even in just regular units, these commanders are very skilled fighers, usually having specialization or even mastery, especially in the case of a unit of knights. Using the standard for military units, usually 10 men to a squad having a sgt which is roughly 3rd level, 5 squads to a platoon having a Lt usually 5th level, 4 platoons to a unit having a commander roughly 7th level. There are also varying levels of officers in between, ie a squad would have a corporal, etc. There are very capable soldeirs on that battle field, a 7th level fighter, perhaps even having mastery of a sword, 4 5th level Lts also specialized, etc. For the cost of a golem, 40 gb, give me 7 units of knights, just their commanders 7, 7th level weapon masters and you will see that golem fall indeed, not to mention all the other knights acompanying them.
    In 3rd edition those high level captains are represented by the heros unit. Otherwise the leaders of the units are mid level NPC classes, for the most part. Heros units could concieveably go toe-to-toe with a golem unit and survive/win.

    3rd, artillery can indeed target a single golem due to their size (assuming they are large or larger). And (again by 2nd ed system) artillery act as magical weapons for purposes of hitter creatures requiring magic weapons to damage them.
    Technically artillary could, but in 3rd edition rules, they wouldnt do much damage, probably 5-10 hp per hit. Thus they'd have a chance to damage it, but you'd need to bear several such units at the golem, units that could be foiled with battle magic walls of force or wind walls.

    4th and most importantly, mages and priests can still neutralize a golem very effectively without even targeting the golem itself and thus not even needing to consider its magic resistance. A dig spell, causing a very large hole under the golems feet is not subject to the golems magic resistance, nor would spells making large items fall on them, etc. etc.
    No dig spell in 3rd edition, and causing objects to 'fall' on the golem again, have to get past their strong Damage Reduction. It's possible, and would definatly give bonuses on attack rolls against a golem unit, but they wouldnt easily destroy such a unit.

    Transmute rock to mud would indeed completely neuralize the thing as
    well.
    Again, 2nd edition, not 3rd.

    Finally, (since I don't have my books handy due to moving) if I remember correctly, very few golems (if any) are completely immune to all forms of magic. Assuming that you allow mages to flow freely enough in your campaign to be able to create one in the first place, the opposition to the golems are likely to have similar magics at their disposal, and thus all kinds of ways of completely wasting that regents 40 gb. And no sane regent would be all his eggs in one basket.
    Actually for the most part golems have spell immunity: they're considered to have 'infinite' spell resistance for spells that allow it. That, along with their construct abilities, makes them immune to MOST special affects, including a majority of magic.

    And the golem unit could be seen more as a special assault unit, built up slowly over months and years, not something a regent spends ALL his money towards and then sends out alone. Unless said regent is an idiot.

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