Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1

    Tome of Magic and the Lost

    After reading the discussion in the Lost thread started by Fizz, it got me wondering if perhaps Azrai didn't teach the Lost to be true wizards but instead taught them how to be shadowcasters. Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    I think Azrai simply gave them ties to the Shadow World, granting them access to the School of Shadow. With access to the School of Shadow, they could have become Shadow Mages, as presented in the Player's Options series:

    <<The Shadow Mage

    Minimum Ability Requirements:
    Intelligence/Reason 15; Wisdom/Will 14
    Races Allowed: Human
    Prohibited Kits: Gladiator, pugilist

    The places where light and darkness meet have long symbolized opposition and balance, the clash of good and evil, even of chaos and law. The School of Shadow teaches mages to use these contrasts to reach the secret source and union of all shadow and harness its power. Shadow mages tend to be grim sentinels who have exchanged the bright spark of a normal existence for the power of twilight and darkness. Very few shadow mages are of good alignment; a great number are neutral, and some have embraced the darkness completely and turned to ways of evil.

    Shadow mages are closely tied to the Demiplane of Shadow. They have discovered that every shadow in the real world has a mystic connection or source in Shadowland. A wizard with skill and a strong heart can use the most mundane shadows as a doorway to this realm of dusk, calling forth its powers for their own purposes. A number of shadow mages eventually become shades, or creatures whose physical forms have been completely replaced by shadow-stuff, although this doesn’t happen to player character shadow mages except in extraordinary circumstances.

    In addition to the normal advantages and penalties associated with specializing in a school of magic, a shadow mage’s effectiveness is tied to the lighting condition at the time he casts a spell from this school. Naturally, shadow mages are weakest in broad daylight and progressively stronger in weak daylight or dusk, partial darkness, and finally complete darkness. It’s not the strength of a shadow, but instead the overall absence of light that strengthens the connection to the plane of gloom.

    Modifier to
    Condition Opponent’s Saves
    Bright daylight or continual light +2
    Weak daylight, dusk, or light none
    Late twilight, strong moonlight, lantern light –1
    Weak moonlight, torch light –2
    Candlelight, starlight –3
    Total darkness –4

    Due to their intimate connection with shadow, shadow mages gain an ability to see normally in darkness. As a shadow mage advances in level, he becomes more attuned to darkness and ignores changes in visibility that would partially or completely blind other characters.


    Condition Attack Damage Saving AC
    Penalty Bonus Throws Penalty
    Moonlight –1 Normal –1 0
    Starlight –3 Normal –3 –2
    Total darkness –4 None –4 –4

    At 4th level, the shadow mage sees as well in moonlight (or equivalent light) as a normal human would see in broad daylight, and he can lessen penalties for more complete darkness by 1 point. In other words, he would only suffer a –2 penalty for attacking in starlight, or a –3 penalty for total darkness. At 7th level, he sees by starlight as well as a normal human sees by day, and he lessens combat penalties for total darkness by 2 points. At 10th level he can see perfectly in total darkness, negating all penalties. However, magical blindness or fog can still hinder a shadow mage’s sight.

    The School of Shadow: Many wizard spells derive their energy from extraplanar connections, but spells of the School of Shadow are exclusively tied to the Demiplane of Shadow. The School of Shadow is opposed by the Schools of Invocation/Evocation and Abjuration, both of which rely on more positive energies than the subtle, pervasive power of shadow. The spells of the School of Shadow are listed below; italicized spells can be found in the Tome of Magic, and bold spells can be found in The Complete Wizard’s Handbook.

    Chill touch (1st)
    Sleep (1st)
    Spook (1st)
    Blur (2nd)
    Continual darkness (2nd)
    Darkness 15' radius (2nd)
    Ray of enfeeblement (2nd)
    Scare (2nd)
    Spectral hand (2nd)
    Lorloveim’s creeping shadow (3rd)
    Phantom steed (3rd)
    Spirit armor (3rd)
    Wraithform (3rd)
    Dimension door (4th)
    Enervation (4th)
    Evard’s black tentacles (4th)
    Fear (4th)
    Minor creation (4th)
    Shadow monsters (4th)
    Demi-shadow monsters (5th)
    Major creation (5th)
    Mordenkainen’s faithful hound (5th)
    Passwall (5th)
    Shadow door (5th)
    Shadow magic (5th)
    Blackmantle (6th)
    Bloodstone’s spectral steed (6th)
    Demi-shadow magic (6th)
    Lorloveim’s shadowy transformation (6th)
    Shades (6th)
    Duo-dimension (7th)
    Phase door (7th)
    Shadowcat (7th)
    Shadow Walk (7th)
    Maze (8th)
    Shadowform (8th)
    Astral spell (9th)
    Energy drain (9th)

    Copyright 1999 TSR Inc.>>

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Upstate New York, USA
    Posts
    52
    Downloads
    4
    Uploads
    0
    But if you look at the three Lost that we know of in Cerilia: the Raven, el Sheighul (sp) and the Magian, none of them have this special Shadow Mage class. However, all three have levels of basic wizard, which of course would have been impossible for them to get in pre-Deismaar days, given our known rules, but all have powerful bloodlines of Azrai. I suppose there are a few chances here:

    1) They were some special form of magician pre-Deismaar, were present when Azrai was killed, absorbed true bloodlines and their class levels were converted to true mages.
    2) They were given true bloodlines before Deismaar and were true mages, this was the "gift" of Azrai: they were the first blooded. We have some precedence for this tactic as the Cold Rider awards tainted bloodlines to his halfling minions to both strengthen and control them (see Blood Spawn). When Azrai was destroyed, they were already tied to him, did not absorb more blood power and were drawn with him into the Shadow World.
    3) They were given minor bloodlines before Deismaar, enough to become true mages, which they did. When he was destroyed, they were already tied to him and, in the destruction of the battle, absorbed far more power and were drawn with him into the Shadow World.

    I think that either two or three is the most likely, simply because as far as game mechanics go, it would very simple. No new rules would be needed, which is good as it would be impractical to go through the expense of making or adapting a new class for 12 unique individuals. Plust the addition of a new class for these characters would contradict pre-existing information printed on the Raven, the Magian and el-Sheighul. What I think is more likely is that the True Bloodline in the Lost, being an intentional creation, is more powerful than most bloodlines and has unique abilities.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus Argent
    I think Azrai simply gave them ties to the Shadow World, granting them access to the School of Shadow. With access to the School of Shadow, they could have become Shadow Mages, as presented in the Player's Options series:
    The Shadowcaster does have access to some spells from the School of Shadow as well as other abilities. The fact that its spells eventually become spell-like and supernatural abilities may make them mysterious unique casters different from other arcane spellcasters in Cerilia. I do agree that Azrai did give them ties to the Shadow World since that is where Shadowcasters gain their powers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Satchkep45
    I think that either two or three is the most likely, simply because as far as game mechanics go, it would very simple. No new rules would be needed, which is good as it would be impractical to go through the expense of making or adapting a new class for 12 unique individuals. Plust the addition of a new class for these characters would contradict pre-existing information printed on the Raven, the Magian and el-Sheighul. What I think is more likely is that the True Bloodline in the Lost, being an intentional creation, is more powerful than most bloodlines and has unique abilities.
    Of course most pre-existing BR information printed uses 2e rules but with 3.5e and its various classes and options one can make changes and have some fun. The Shadowcaster can easily be adapted for the members of the Lost since a Shadowcaster will never be able to learn all the path mysteries. One can make one of the Lost a master of one of the paths and another a master of a different path.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    aberdeen, scotland
    Posts
    281
    Downloads
    87
    Uploads
    0
    The lost may have been pulled into the shadow world because azrai was sent there and as they had part of him they were sent there too.

    People seem to forget that the shadow world was a world just like aerbenis before its corruption so I dont think you would gain shadow world powers from a connection too it. Instead azrai is the bringer of darkness.
    MORNINGSTAR

  6. #6
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    3,946
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by graham anderson
    The lost may have been pulled into the shadow world because azrai was sent there and as they had part of him they were sent there too.

    People seem to forget that the shadow world was a world just like aerbenis before its corruption so I dont think you would gain shadow world powers from a connection too it. Instead azrai is the bringer of darkness.
    From Blood Spawn:

    When Two Worlds Were One. . .

    The sages say that long ago, perhaps before humanity existed on Aebrynis, the world of Daylight and the world of Shadow were as one. The landscape of Aebrynis had not completely formed then, and the world could change according to its own rules, without rhyme or reason. A lake might form where a mountain had been, white glaciers moved over deserts, and rivers flowed through the sky. This was a time before the gods, but it ultimately resulted in their creation.

    The gods, it is believed, were formed out of the land, and their natures bound them to it. Not wishing their natures to change without warning, as did the land, they began to enforce their will upon the world. Mountains, rivers, shores, and seas all took shape and stayed constant, bent to the will of the young gods. But one god delighted in the ever-changing world and refused to bind his will and his being to the land. That god became Lord of Shadow, the god of Chaos and Change. He became Azrai.

    Little is known of the gods’ earliest years in this time before humans and, perhaps, before elves. Giants walked the earth along with near-immortal beasts and other beings lost to the passage of time. It is said, however, that in the beginning Azrai alone of the gods willed change and evolution into being. If this is true, the race of humanity— as well as many of the other races now inhabiting Aebrynis—owe their existence to him. The elements of permanence and transience—light and shadow—warred in those early days, and their battles grew so great that a rift formed between the land of Shadow and the land of Daylight. Passage between the two was still possible, even common, in those days, but soon (as gods measure time) the Shadow World and the world of Aebrynis solidified their borders. Aebrynis remained constant, only transforming in response to the actions of its inhabitants over long periods, while the Shadow World remained mutable and ever-changing.

    Then came Deismaar, the destruction of the gods, and the cleaving of the world. The Shadow World became a place of fear and strange tales for those remaining on Aebrynis and now, more than fifteen hundred years later, only a scant number of people know more than a few tales of the Shadow World and its inhabitants. The Shadow World remains in flux. Halflings alone of Cerilia’s races may still pass freely between the two worlds and, since halflings fled the Shadow World in response to a terror they will not reveal, most are loathe to do so. And even a halfling would find it difficult to navigate the ever-changing land of Shadow.
    Duane Eggert

  7. #7
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    3,946
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    And more of interest pertaining to elves.

    The seelie faeries were the first children of the Shadow World. Long ago, when the waking world and the Shadow World were one, a race known as the Sie (“see”) populated the land. These creatures were beings of great magic, innate wielders of both sorcery that worked with nature (priestly spells) and sorcery that broke the rules of nature (wizardly spells). They cast their spells not by the prayer of priests or the rote memorization of human wizards, but rather the gathering of magical energies (the process yet employed by today’s elves).

    The force that spilt the world into two halves was so strong that it also split the land’s inhabitants, ripping the Sie in twain. Each creature became two separate entities—a faerie (seelie) in the Shadow World and an elf (Sidhe) in Cerilia. The seelie retained control of natural magic and gained power over a new force in the Shadow World: the Seeming. The Sidhe retained control of wizardly magic and became bound to the land itself.

    Though the ancient link between the two peoples has long since been forgotten by all but the Faerie Queen (the only surviving Sie), to this day, when an elf is born in Cerilia, a new faerie appears in the Seelie Court. While it is possible that a traveling elf or faerie could meet its counterpart, no one knows what would happen in such an extraordinary event.

    Unless slain, seelie faeries are immortal in the Shadow World but mortal in Cerilia. Conversely, elves are immortal in Cerilia but mortal in the Shadow World. The faeries are as attuned to the nature of the Shadow World as elves are to Cerilia. This link enables them to exist in such a hostile environment with virtually no natural predators. The evil of the Shadow World , however, holds plenty of unnatural ones.

    Seelie faeries are generally vegetarians, subsisting primarily on fruits, nuts, roots, and seeds. They do, however, eat meat when it is offered to them. The fair folk have an aversion to milk—a means by which savvy individuals have been known to expose a faerie so masked in the Seeming that its identity was otherwise indeterminable.

    Duane Eggert

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    aberdeen, scotland
    Posts
    281
    Downloads
    87
    Uploads
    0
    I was just pointing out that it wasn't always the dark place it is today and that may be down to azrai and the lost. I see it more as a place of illusion or reflection rather than shadow but azrai/the cold ones influence has made that reflection dark and terrible to behold.
    MORNINGSTAR

  9. #9
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    3,946
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by graham anderson
    I was just pointing out that it wasn't always the dark place it is today and that may be down to azrai and the lost. I see it more as a place of illusion or reflection rather than shadow but azrai/the cold ones influence has made that reflection dark and terrible to behold.
    But when they split the Shadow World was always ingrained with the seeming, so while not dark and corrupted it was not just like Aebrynis.

    So I tend to agree with the "illusion" aspect but not the "just like" comparision.

    I supplied the text for those who hadn't seen it. There are quite a few people who haven't read any of the 2nd ed material on BR, let alone even know about the "free" downloads from WotC - like Blood Spawn or the Book of Regency.
    Last edited by irdeggman; 04-19-2006 at 11:37 AM.
    Duane Eggert

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    aberdeen, scotland
    Posts
    281
    Downloads
    87
    Uploads
    0
    Thats true a lot havn't read it and they can get it from the wotc site. I chose my words poorly when I said just like it but I dont quite see it as connected to shadows and the shadow world/weave as in say forgotten realms (hauk spit). There is still a connection though.
    MORNINGSTAR

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.