A new online petition for Hasbro WotC

[oomalex]

Hi everyone, I’d like to share that a few days ago I launched a petition on Change.org asking Hasbro and WotC to bring back the Birthright setting.
I’ve received a lot of negative feedback, some of which I actually agree with.
But the main issue isn’t whether AD&D or 5th Edition is better — it’s about whether we want to see a wonderful setting survive or disappear. A setting that, sadly, cannot rely on fan support alone.
Below you’ll find the details of the petition.

Good morning everyone,
I’m replying to your comments with quite some delay — unfortunately, work and family commitments over the past few days didn’t allow me to answer sooner, or as thoughtfully as I would have liked.

I fully agree with all of you: I also prefer AD&D over the current edition. In fact, tonight I’ll be running the first session of a new campaign I’m DMing, set in Muden, and I’ll rely on my old party because, at almost 53, I find it hard to digest a new rule system that I simply don’t enjoy.

So, why this petition?
Because, truth be told, Birthright is a dead setting. It’s gone. Showing some renewed interest might push the publisher to bring it back to life — to give us new material, new stories, new artwork. That’s the only reason behind this.

Personally, as I mentioned, my group (we’ve been playing together since the Red Box days!) has fully moved on to 5E, and they’re not likely to return to 2.5.

But the question I keep asking myself — and you — is this:
do we really want the Forgotten Realms and other settings to keep thriving, while Aebrynis fades into oblivion?

https://c.org/BsQpwMZKkH

[Sorontar]

I commend you for your objective, but I ask anyone who wants to support this to consider various things that were discussed in the Discord and here previously. There are a number of issues if WOTC/Hasbro were to revive and update Birthright for any future version of D&D.

1. Birthright does not fit into the other D&D campaign settings or the current powerplay rules.
   E.g., low-level magic, few magical items, little planar travel, separate deities, Shadow World is not Feywild and or Shadowfell, blooded PCs and NPCs being the "heroes", not all species or classes being available for PCs, humanoid races having new histories/origin stories and stats.
2. At the realm level, Birthright is largely system independent
   The br.net community has proven this by playing the realm level for various systems. The main system-based changes would need to be how the PCs/NPCs and the blood abilitiies/scores get managed.
3. A lot has been added on Birthright.net for which the community is co-copyright holder according to my understanding of the original agreement.
   This includes realm descriptions, NPCs and rule fixes.
4. The 3/3.5e committee chose to change the D&D system for Birthright, not Birthright for the D&D system.
   The fear is that a new WOTC/Hasbro version of Birthright would not be Birthright, because it would just be an attempt to fit Birthright in with all of the other worlds/settings for the current D&D version.
5. WOTC have previously said no.
   Arjan at various stages asked them.

Sorontar

[oomalex]

I commend you for your objective, but I ask anyone who wants to support this to consider various things that were discussed in the Discord and here previously. There are a number of issues if WOTC/Hasbro were to revive and update Birthright for any future version of D&D.

[....
Arjan at various stages asked them.[/LIST]

Sorontar

Thank you, Sorontar, for your thorough and thoughtful reply.
I don’t use Discord (which is surely a limitation on my part), but I must say that I don’t fully agree with all the points you raised.

I don’t want to go too deep into the difficulties you mentioned — many of which I personally haven’t found to be so limiting. In fact, over the years I’ve adapted several adventures from other settings into Birthright, and even started (though never completed, due to players’ commitments) a campaign set in the Five Peaks, featuring Orog and goblin themes.

What I’m really asking for — as someone who always plays in the Birthright setting, even when running “normal” D&D campaigns without realm management — is simply that this world doesn’t fall into oblivion.

I would like to see new, official material being produced, keeping the setting alive.

If we can show a strong number of supporters through this petition, perhaps someone at an editorial level might take the initiative to publish at least a modern game system for realm management.

[Doyle]

I like the idea, and the old WoTC might have managed it, but if Hasbro were to redo Birthright, I doubt it would still be the game / setting we love. It is not their style (going on past performance) to publish something they cannot turn into a fast revenue. They might try to take the realm management and make one of their pay-per-play online games with it, only $2.99 for 25 regency points or something similar.

If you want a more modern version of the realm management, I recommend Seeds of Wars. It was designed with Birthright in mind and has a good mechanic. The online version has a Cerilia map now.

If you want a 5e conversion, there are a few copies about - Marsupial's being one of the more popular.
Because I run D&D for kids (professionally) each year in addition to my group of friends, I've written my own conversion document that is not too far off canon and is acceptable by the kids who tend to want all the 'bells & whistles' they can get. I've been updating it for next year with added backgrounds if you want a copy.

New content does get produced - Aurel published and ran Lost Princess of House Roele at a convention this year / end of last year. - It is just not official from WoTC.

I expanded parts of Ilien for 'The Rat of Ilien' story and could share that if you want a starting point for 1st level 5e characters.

Regards,
Doyle

[oomalex]

I like the idea, and the old WoTC might have managed it, but if Hasbro were to redo Birthright, I doubt it would still be the game / setting we love. It is not their style (going on past performance) to publish something they cannot turn into a fast revenue. They might try to take the realm management and make one of their pay-per-play online games with it, only $2.99 for 25 regency points or something similar.

If you want a more modern version of the realm management, I recommend Seeds of Wars. It was designed with Birthright in mind and has a good mechanic. The online version has a Cerilia map now.

If you want a 5e conversion, there are a few copies about - Marsupial's being one of the more popular.
Because I run D&D for kids (professionally) each year in addition to my group of friends, I've written my own conversion document that is not too far off canon and is acceptable by the kids who tend to want all the 'bells & whistles' they can get. I've been updating it for next year with added backgrounds if you want a copy.

New content does get produced - Aurel published and ran Lost Princess of House Roele at a convention this year / end of last year. - It is just not official from WoTC.

I expanded parts of Ilien for 'The Rat of Ilien' story and could share that if you want a starting point for 1st level 5e characters.

Regards,
Doyle

Doyle, the problem isn't the amount of material out there or the poor quality that Hasbro might produce. It's whether or not to keep alive a D&D setting that had/has enormous potential that hasn't been exploited and is in danger of disappearing. I would love to have official material, but given how the signatures went (not enough for a condominium meeting), then obviously it would be up to me, with my skills (real or presumptuous, as I believe I have them), to modify what I need. But Birthright would be alive. Of course, I would be very happy to see your Rat of Ilien, even though I moved my players to the misty waters of Brecht after we brought Ilien to rival Anuire years ago.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

[Fizz]

Doyle, the problem isn't the amount of material out there or the poor quality that Hasbro might produce.

I would disagree with that. The quality of material is very important here. We don't know what Hasbro would do with it. As Birthright fans, we don't want a re-hash of Faerun with different names. We don't want a setting that is "Birthright" in name only; it's the nature of the setting that matters. So the question is this: who would you rather have create new material? Actual fans of the setting, or a corporation that doesn't understand it?

It's whether or not to keep alive a D&D setting that had/has enormous potential that hasn't been exploited and is in danger of disappearing. I would love to have official material, but given how the signatures went (not enough for a condominium meeting), then obviously it would be up to me, with my skills (real or presumptuous, as I believe I have them), to modify what I need. But Birthright would be alive.

I would argue Birthright is still very much alive here. Several of us still produce content. Currently, Sorontar and I are having a discussion on a 5e conversion (how to handle the guilder). There have been several 5e conversions already. I and others have made conversions for other systems (such as Castles & Crusades and Savage Worlds). The community here has successfully kept the setting alive for nigh 25 years, (essentially since 3e came out).

Don't get me wrong, i wish they would produce more products too, but i would be very skeptical Hasbro would do it justice. If they brought back the original team (Stark, Baker, Bebris), i'd feel way more confident about it.


-Fizz

[Sorontar]

Note also there is the issue of what each of us thinks makes up Birthright. There have been other Kingdom management systems, like Matt Coleville's Strongholds and Followers and Seeds of War, both of which were inspired in part by Birthright. I like the setting and backstory and wouldn't want that ruined.

As I pointed out before, there is also the issue that a lot of the tidying up and expansion of Birthright has been by this community. If WotC wanted to do anything, then they would have to see the br.net as peers. After all, anything at br.net is co-owned. I don't see them wanting to spend time and money to manage that. It is easier for them to redevelop the core and use it on a new world that they have full control over.

Sorontar