Dwarven resistance

[Fizz]

Hi all-

The original Core Rules from the original boxed set says that dwarves take half-damage from bludgeoning attacks. Cool

The 3e BRCS says the same thing- dwarves take half-damage from bludgeoning attacks. That is consistent.

However, in the latest, 3.5e BRCS, this has changed to dwarves have DR 5 / piercing & slashing attacks. The mechanic difference is one matter, but why has the resistance changed from bludgeoning to anything-but-bludgeoning? This makes no sense, and I can find no reason for this change.

What is up with that?


-Fizz

[Fizz]

Well, in the absence of any replies, i propose we update the 3.5 BRCS to put Dwarven resistance back to what it should be- resistant to bludgeoning.

How do we or who does that? I updated the Cerilian Dwarves entry on the wiki (http://www.birthright.net/forums/sho...arves_Cerilian) , but i don't think i have permissions for the BRCS page (http://www.birthright.net/forums/sho...arves_Cerilian).

-Fizz

[Sorontar]

Well, in the absence of any replies, i propose we update the 3.5 BRCS to put Dwarven resistance back to what it should be- resistant to bludgeoning.

How do we or who does that? I updated the Cerilian Dwarves entry on the wiki (http://www.birthright.net/forums/sho...arves_Cerilian) , but i don't think i have permissions for the BRCS page (http://www.birthright.net/forums/sho...arves_Cerilian).

-Fizz

Any corrections for the BRCS 3.5e go onto the Errata page at http://www.birthright.net/forums/sho...le=BRCS:Errata, since the wiki is not the original document - it is just a version of the original document. For consistency, a new version of the original document has to be written that corresponds to the fixes in the Errata, and only then the wiki can be updated to new version of the document.

This is sort of what I started doing last year. I might have the time to get around to continuing it in January, now that I have docx files that are reasonable matches to the current BRCS pdf files.

I'll add it to the Errata page (which is protected like the wiki), unless someone speaks up.

Sorontar

[Fizz]

Well, no one has objected yet, so i say add it to the errata. You know you want to.

-Fizz

[Sorontar]

All done for both sentences. If you see any other questionable parts of the BRCS that haven't been spotted before, just say so.

Sorontar

[Osprey]

Hi all-

The original Core Rules from the original boxed set says that dwarves take half-damage from bludgeoning attacks. Cool

The 3e BRCS says the same thing- dwarves take half-damage from bludgeoning attacks. That is consistent.

However, in the latest, 3.5e BRCS, this has changed to dwarves have DR 5 / piercing & slashing attacks. The mechanic difference is one matter, but why has the resistance changed from bludgeoning to anything-but-bludgeoning? This makes no sense, and I can find no reason for this change.

What is up with that?


-Fizz

I was just reviewing past posts and noticed this. I believe there is a misinterpretation of mechanical expressions here. The 3.5 BRCS printed it correctly.

DR 5/Bludgeoning means a creature has DR 5 against physical attacks except Bludgeoning. That is, bludgeoning weapons bypass this reduction.

So DR 5/piercing and slashing means the creature has DR 5 against physical attacks, but Piercing and Slashing attacks bypass the resistance (which leaves only Bludgeoning as the resisted weapon damage type).

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. Site's been down a lot.

[Sorontar]

Ah, so it is a terminology style issue, such that the / in the 3.5e description means "sans" or "excluding"? Is there a 3.5e canon document like the PHB or DMG that explains this? If not, then we will still need to change the way it is described for dwarves in the BRCS 3.5e, because it is too vague.

Sorontar

[Osprey]

Ah, so it is a terminology style issue, such that the / in the 3.5e description means "sans" or "excluding"? Is there a 3.5e canon document like the PHB or DMG that explains this? If not, then we will still need to change the way it is described for dwarves in the BRCS 3.5e, because it is too vague.

Sorontar

So the Monster Manual is usually the easy place to look for things like this in my experience.

Damage Reduction (Ex or Su): A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability.

[Osprey]

Ah, so it is a terminology style issue, such that the / in the 3.5e description means "sans" or "excluding"? Is there a 3.5e canon document like the PHB or DMG that explains this? If not, then we will still need to change the way it is described for dwarves in the BRCS 3.5e, because it is too vague.

Sorontar

We could slightly modify the text to be more clear like this:

Increased Density: A dwarf's dense body is resistant to bludgeoning attacks, and provides DR 5/slashing or piercing. Dwarves suffer a -4 penalty to swim and tumble checks. Because Cerilian dwarves are denser than the Player's Handbook dwarf, when using the random method of determining height and weight per the Player's Handbook, add 80 lbs to the base weight for both male and female dwarves.

[Sorontar]

Okay, the full explanation from MM1 (p307) makes more sense:

"The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability. For example, the werewolf's entry reads “damage reduction 10/silver": Each time a foe hits a werewolf with a weapon, the damage dealt by that attack is reduced by 10 points (to a minimum of 0). However, a silvered weapon deals full damage.

Some monsters are vulnerable to piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage. For example, skeletons have damage reduction 5/bludgeoning. When hit with slashing or piercing weapons, the damage dealt by each attack is reduced by 5 points, but bludgeoning weapons deal full damage."

I guess that if you know 3.5e enough to use it for BRCS, you should know how to read this, but it may be beneficial to add a footnote or cite the MM1 to make it clearer. I don't thing this has really been done before in the BRCS 3.5e, so when BRCS 3.5e v2 happens, we will have to design a new standard for whatever we use.

Sorontar