The whole blooded regents thing doesnt really make sense if you think about it

[AndrewTall]

... Ruins of Empire say that the Hand of Azrai must not be blooded, because if she were the Gorgon would have slain her for her bloodline a long time ago. So would not the Hand's vassals / lieutenants suffer the same fate?

...
-Fizz

To me that should be taken as Anuirean progaganda - the great evil cannot posibly be like a normal noble who has vassals, etc, he must instead be a demon who devours all

I note that the write ups of Markazor, Mur-kilad, Kiergard, and even the Crown have blooded underlings of the Gorgon, as does Blood Enemies from recollection (the living hoard?) so he clearly doesn't kill every scion in reach.

Depending on which write-up of the Gorgon you use (card in the boxset or Blood enemies) he would also need a wizard for his sources.

I would have the Gorgon have a similar mindset now as when he was young, a feudal one, that way he has lots of vassals, meaning that when PC's/whoever are competing with "the gorgon" they are actually dealing with flunkies of some sort - otherwise everyone is terrified of doing anything to oppose "the Gorgon", whereas with layers of vassals they can act relatively normally, and meanwhile the vassals can undermine each other, etc to win favour/etc with the Gorgon in the best traditions of evil empires creating play opportunities for PC's.

I admit though that I have the Gorgon see himself as Emperor of Anuire, complete with a lavish court, etc, to which on occasion it might be possible for players to interact safely (so long as they pass their ancient andu etiquette checks), so I had one of his vassal lieutenants be a knight descended from his ancient Andu followers and so on, which will not be to everyone's taste.

[Fizz]

To me that should be taken as Anuirean progaganda - the great evil cannot posibly be like a normal noble who has vassals, etc, he must instead be a demon who devours all

I've never thought of it that way before. It's stated in the domain info block in Ruins of Empire, so i have always read it as a "rule" rather than propoganda (ie, it doesn't read like Blood Enemies or Atlas. Your take does put a different spin on things.

I note that the write ups of Markazor, Mur-kilad, Kiergard, and even the Crown have blooded underlings of the Gorgon, as does Blood Enemies from recollection (the living hoard?) so he clearly doesn't kill every scion in reach.

True, but those underlings are in other realms: they hold no domains in the Gorgon's Crown itself, unlike the Hand. That may make a difference.

Depending on which write-up of the Gorgon you use (card in the boxset or Blood enemies) he would also need a wizard for his sources.

Hrmmm... to what difference are you referring? The box set card specifically lists the Gorgon as Fighter 25 / Wizard 16, while Blood Enemies makes no mention of class at all. But both refer to his sources, so he must be a capable wizard in either version to control the sources, no? So i don't see a contradiction, unless i'm missing something.

I admit though that I have the Gorgon see himself as Emperor of Anuire, complete with a lavish court, etc, to which on occasion it might be possible for players to interact safely (so long as they pass their ancient andu etiquette checks), so I had one of his vassal lieutenants be a knight descended from his ancient Andu followers and so on, which will not be to everyone's taste.

I see him the same way. He sees himself as the rightful ruler of Anuire if not all Cerilia, and would want the trappings of such. He does not live in a dim castle dungeon but a highly ornate (though well-fortifired) palace, possibly the most magnificent in all Cerilia. He would also have a feudal bureaucracy and accept blooded underlings to do their jobs. In many ways, he would act as other regents do.

I recall the Atlas of Cerilia, written by Calidhe Dosiere, which refers to an encounter he had with the Gorgon as part of a diplomatic mission. One member of their party was slain by the Gogron for a poor choice of words, but the rest were allowed to leave. So no, he doesn't slay every bloodline on sight.

But the Hand of Azrai is unique in that she is the only one with holdings inside the Gorgon's Crown. That may be (or could be) a key factor here. The Gorgon has no priestlly levels himself, so he needs someone for priest realm spells. So would having a blooded being in such close proximity all the time be acceptable to him? If not, is she aided by a relic or sielshegh stones, or something else? Or is her non-blooded nature just a typo? Ymmv. Heh.

I can see if from multiple angles, so i don't think any interpretation / solution is "wrong". The mystery is part of the fun.

-Fizz

[Magian]

Hrmmm... to what difference are you referring? The box set card specifically lists the Gorgon as Fighter 25 / Wizard 16, while Blood Enemies makes no mention of class at all. But both refer to his sources, so he must be a capable wizard in either version to control the sources, no? So i don't see a contradiction, unless i'm missing something.

In past discussions there were at least two takes on the Gorgon as him being a single class 25 fighter or multi-class/dual classed 25 fighter / 16 wizard. (from memory so I may have something wrong)

I was always on the side of the fighter/wizard for the same reasons you mentioned. However, some are adamant about him being a fighter only. So, I approach the topic like Andrew, giving leeway for both.


Regarding Prince Raesene's rule, I agree it should be archaic, as evidenced with this realm's economic demonstration of no guild holdings. But that is just a personal take. Could be an interesting campaign to modernize his economy by bringing him into the mercantilist market system. Could establish a Cerilian Trade Organization CTO for short.

Bringing Raesene into the CTO and normalizing trade will strengthen those who fight for the environment, for labor standards, for human rights, for the rule of law.

For Raesene, this agreement will clearly increase the benefits of cooperation and the costs of confrontation.

Anuire, of course, will continue to defend our interests, but at this stage in Raesene's development we will have more positive influence with an outstretched hand than with a clenched fist.

[AndrewTall]

Hrmmm... to what difference are you referring? The box set card specifically lists the Gorgon as Fighter 25 / Wizard 16, while Blood Enemies makes no mention of class at all. But both refer to his sources, so he must be a capable wizard in either version to control the sources, no? So i don't see a contradiction, unless i'm missing something.
-Fizz

Blood enemies mentions him saving as a F25, and has him as specialised in every weapon and wearing full plate, but otherwise doesn't mention class/class abilities, what it also doesn't mention is any magical ability - no special attack "spells" or reference to caster level. In fairness the Chimera has special attack "spells" and is described as a wizardess but no reference to level or actual spells, but the Hag gets a proper spell list, as do the Harpy, Magian, Raven, Rhoubhe, Serpent, Sphinx, and White Witch making the lack of reference in the Gorgon write-up stand out.

Which is inconsistent with the card in the box set that clearly states that the Gorgon has wizard levels of course, not necessarily with him holding sources, but certainly with hm having much interest in doing so.

In my mind it is counter-productive to have the Gorgon as a wizard, making him have sources held through various vassal wizards makes it a lot easier to get conflict in gameplay (who wants to contest the Gorgon's holding?) and similarly having the Gorgon hold almost all holdings through (potentially competing) vassals means that the Crown can be used in game play as various vassals make a play for this or that, possibly while being set-up to fail by a competitor, and the PC's are left able to fight the vassals without directly challenging the Gorgon - as long as the PC's don't get too cocky of course.

[Fizz]

Blood enemies mentions him saving as a F25, and has him as specialised in every weapon and wearing full plate,

True, though the rules are a bit different for a 1500 year-old extraordinary creature.

but otherwise doesn't mention class/class abilities, what it also doesn't mention is any magical ability - no special attack "spells" or reference to caster level. but the Hag gets a proper spell list, as do the Harpy, Magian, Raven, Rhoubhe, Serpent, Sphinx, and White Witch making the lack of reference in the Gorgon write-up stand out.

So the question is, was it deliberately done that way, or are they just missed edits from Blood Enemies?

One could reconcile this by saying Gorgon doesn't use spells for personal combat- he always fights as a warrior against individuals, thus wouldn't belong in the stat block. And that his wizardly abilities are reserved only for Realm magic. I think that'd be consistent with his personality, especially as he is a fan of bloodtheft- can't steal blood by killing your enemies with spells.

Which is inconsistent with the card in the box set that clearly states that the Gorgon has wizard levels of course, not necessarily with him holding sources, but certainly with hm having much interest in doing so.

Can one hold a source without wizardly levels? So if the Gorgon is not a wizard, then he holds the sources for what purpose; just to prevent others from using them?

In my mind it is counter-productive to have the Gorgon as a wizard, making him have sources held through various vassal wizards makes it a lot easier to get conflict in gameplay (who wants to contest the Gorgon's holding?) and similarly having the Gorgon hold almost all holdings through (potentially competing) vassals means that the Crown can be used in game play as various vassals make a play for this or that, possibly while being set-up to fail by a competitor, and the PC's are left able to fight the vassals without directly challenging the Gorgon - as long as the PC's don't get too cocky of course.

I can see how a dedicated wizard (or wizards) beholden to the Gorgon has appeal for gameplay possibilities. He does see himself as the rightful ruler of Cerilia, but does he still believe in feudalism, accepting lesser ruler beholden to him, or does he want absolute control at every level? It's difficult to tell from Markazor and Mur-Kilad, as the distribution of holdings is not specified, only that the Gorgon has absolute control over the military.


-Fizz