Bloodlines, Inheritance, usurpation, and confusion!

[masterdaorin]

In Anuire at least, there is an awful lot of "trial by combat" culture that would certainly include rules for when bloodtheft is "OK by Haelyn!" Cuiraecen would tend to follow with looser rules and even encouragement of bloodtheft of evil foes in single combat. (Risk of taint is part of the spiritual trial, right? Great basis for fallen paladins too! ).

Anuireans justify wars for a lot of reasons, and I think the wars then justify a lot of violent acts that are unacceptable in peacetime. Bloodtheft on the battlefield would certainly be at the top of those allowances.
I think in well-justified wars where an invader or other enemy regent is publicly made out to be a villain, bloodthefting the villain and their scion followers either on the battlefield or even as a form of execution would be acceptable to most Anuireans so long as they believed in the victims' villainy. Good PR campaigns / diplomacy / propaganda tend to really matter here, for regents in particular.

Brechts have a lot of dueling too, but I imagine they get pretty loose with the ethical rules, as the one left living is clearly the real winner at the end of any duel!

Khinasi would be all about the rules of the duel not the participants. I am not sure how Avani feels about bloodtheft, but I expect her temples would influence Khinasi laws and mores about bloodtheft the most in those lands.

Vos = get it if you can!

I get a different take from the cultures of Cerilia, and the whole idea of bloodlines.

Haelyn is the god of nobles. of order, and of righteousness. He would want you to always keep in your heart the importance of keeping things whole, and in their place. Thievery is a sin... Everyone was born a certain way, and you should learn to accept your lot in life... it's that way for a reason - a good reason. Even in war - going around slumming for bloodlines is not a good reason for war. Sadly, too many people do so anyway, and ignore the dictates of their wise god, and fall into sin.

Sera is about balance. How would this theft likely to factor into the whole? If it makes sense to do so, then ok... but, collecting all of the divine essence of the gods into fewer and fewer individuals is not really balanced, is it? And then there are the natural tendencies of humans that need to be factored into the equation... all in all, lots of rules need to be in place for this act not to upset the balance of existence. There is more to think about than personal gain in the moment...

Erik is about the natural way. Sullying your line with anything other than the natural essence of your own line (especially the most noble blood, Reynir) is a perversion of nature. This is the way it was since the beginning, has been, and should always be. Do not mess with the natural way of things - the normal way of doing things of this nature is the best way. Do not be greedy - take only that which you need... this act does not allow you to share... to renew the cycle of life...

Avani is about law and order. We are a proud people, and it is a sin to be greedy, to murder, to kill without righteousness. We must maintain the sanctity of our person. Those not of your bloodline that Avani has saw fit to bless with many children are impure - do not allow yourself to be swayed by the thoughts of the Darkling... That path leads only to darkness, and ruin...

Belinik and Kriesha are about doing whatever you can to survive. If the target is weak and does not have the strength of blood to survive, then it is the will of the gods for you to consume their bloodline and strengthen your own with it. Such is the way of things... There are rules of honor and of family to observe in such matters, however... you are not a beast, a mongrel gnoll of the Wastes, who simply kills without reason... if you kill for the wrong reason(s), then you deserve to die, too...

This essence of human gods is not Us. In a way, it is a curse. This is not The Way of Our People. Do not let the proclivities of humanity corrupt your elven nature...

There is only One God, and that is the Soulforger. He gave your forefather a choice in the time of Gideon Rinsparr: follow whomever you choose, and do not waver from your heart's inclination during the Battle. Be a rock. Be stalwart in heart, and do not falter - ever. Your forefather's choice was blessed by Moradin - do not blasphemy, by thinking to claim the bloodright of others... Moradin has a Plan - it's a good one. He will provide for you, when the time is right, if such a thing is in the Plan. No right-thinking dwarf should stray from the Plan.

Yondalla tells us not to fight - we are a peaceful people, we Little Folk. It is not proper to kill. Do not think of such things. Such thinking will only lead to despair and ruin.

Kartathok (Torazon/Yeenoghu) says kill, or be killed! Argh!!! Die!!! (The former two have certain accepted methods for bloodtheft - loose as they are, by human standards).

[Osprey]

I get a different take from the cultures of Cerilia, and the whole idea of bloodlines.

Haelyn is the god of nobles. of order, and of righteousness. He would want you to always keep in your heart the importance of keeping things whole, and in their place. Thievery is a sin... Everyone was born a certain way, and you should learn to accept your lot in life... it's that way for a reason - a good reason. Even in war - going around slumming for bloodlines is not a good reason for war. Sadly, too many people do so anyway, and ignore the dictates of their wise god, and fall into sin.

Sera is about balance. How would this theft likely to factor into the whole? If it makes sense to do so, then ok... but, collecting all of the divine essence of the gods into fewer and fewer individuals is not really balanced, is it? And then there are the natural tendencies of humans that need to be factored into the equation... all in all, lots of rules need to be in place for this act not to upset the balance of existence. There is more to think about than personal gain in the moment...

Erik is about the natural way. Sullying your line with anything other than the natural essence of your own line (especially the most noble blood, Reynir) is a perversion of nature. This is the way it was since the beginning, has been, and should always be. Do not mess with the natural way of things - the normal way of doing things of this nature is the best way. Do not be greedy - take only that which you need... this act does not allow you to share... to renew the cycle of life...

Avani is about law and order. We are a proud people, and it is a sin to be greedy, to murder, to kill without righteousness. We must maintain the sanctity of our person. Those not of your bloodline that Avani has saw fit to bless with many children are impure - do not allow yourself to be swayed by the thoughts of the Darkling... That path leads only to darkness, and ruin...

Belinik and Kriesha are about doing whatever you can to survive. If the target is weak and does not have the strength of blood to survive, then it is the will of the gods for you to consume their bloodline and strengthen your own with it. Such is the way of things... There are rules of honor and of family to observe in such matters, however... you are not a beast, a mongrel gnoll of the Wastes, who simply kills without reason... if you kill for the wrong reason(s), then you deserve to die, too...

This essence of human gods is not Us. In a way, it is a curse. This is not The Way of Our People. Do not let the proclivities of humanity corrupt your elven nature...

There is only One God, and that is the Soulforger. He gave your forefather a choice in the time of Gideon Rinsparr: follow whomever you choose, and do not waver from your heart's inclination during the Battle. Be a rock. Be stalwart in heart, and do not falter - ever. Your forefather's choice was blessed by Moradin - do not blasphemy, by thinking to claim the bloodright of others... Moradin has a Plan - it's a good one. He will provide for you, when the time is right, if such a thing is in the Plan. No right-thinking dwarf should stray from the Plan.

Yondalla tells us not to fight - we are a peaceful people, we Little Folk. It is not proper to kill. Do not think of such things. Such thinking will only lead to despair and ruin.

Kartathok (Torazon/Yeenoghu) says kill, or be killed! Argh!!! Die!!! (The former two have certain accepted methods for bloodtheft - loose as they are, by human standards).

I think after 1500 years of bloodlines being around, the gods' ideals like you imagine them would not be what humans practice anymore, they would be heavily distorted to suit human greed in every single culture. That's why most temples of Haelyn ended up Lawful Neutral in alignment in the core Anuirean setting...because the most compassionate ideals of Haelyn have been lost in favor of legalism and old men of power securing their power generation after generation. (Sounds familiar, doesn't it?)

[masterdaorin]

I think after 1500 years of bloodlines being around, the gods' ideals like you imagine them would not be what humans practice anymore, they would be heavily distorted to suit human greed in every single culture. That's why most temples of Haelyn ended up Lawful Neutral in alignment in the core Anuirean setting...because the most compassionate ideals of Haelyn have been lost in favor of legalism and old men of power securing their power generation after generation. (Sounds familiar, doesn't it?)

That would be true in the real world, of course... and more or less true in the Birthright world as well.

Most temples end up some form of neutral because that alignment bent appeals to the most number of people without overly offending their personal inclinations... and the major sects are about including as many people as they can into their fold, despite the particular ideals that they may espouse. More people = more gold in the coffers... if you get right down to brass tacks...

That all being said, don't forget to factor into your conclusions regarding bloodtheft that deities and magic are real in this world. That carries a little more weight in this thread's consideration than it has had in the real world.

Priests have genuine power in this world - and, I presume, aren't afraid to use it... Excommunication has real consequences... much more so than in the real world.

That being said, many secular people, like in the real world, would be inclined to ignore what the fuddy-duddy priests say, and do what they want to do anyway, if they thought they could get away with the act without censure or drawbacks - the power still rests in the hands of the nobles, of course, and they make the rules (outside religion).

There would be unofficial and commonly accepted norms around bloodtheft in each society - but these wouldn't be endorsed legally, or even publicly acknowledged in most instances, I would argue - for the above-named reasons... Honor and "face" is still a VERY big deal in this world.

I have yet to read an argument that would convince me that bloodtheft would be considered a socially-accepted norm in a (non-evil) culture of Cerilia.

[masterdaorin]

And, to add to that, remember that bloodlines aren't just magic powers.

They represent blood-lines - they represent a dynasty. You belong to the AVAN bloodline, to the BOERUINE bloodline... etc., etc. etc.

That carries weight. Way more than our modern way of thinking understands.

Families would want to protect that name, that idea, that purity of line.

You think to steal OUR bloodline? We will not have some mongrel seek to slake their base inclinations with OUR family's name, OUR divinity gifted to us by the gods, by the foresight of our forefather, the Champion of our bloodline.

Noble families would go to very great lengths to ensure that their bloodline remains in the best possible way, be seen in the best possible light...

They wouldn't want that "lesser" Isiliviere bloodline, for example, mucking up their "better" bloodline. That bloodline carries a shaper-changer - ewww! You see? Isilivieres are "monsters"! You can't trust them... they'll breed another monster with that union - you'll see... OR, pertaining to this thread: sucking up that bloodline runs you the risk of gaining some unforeseen undesirable power... all sorts of superstition would run rampant in this day and age, in this world.

That, of course, needs to be balanced with the desire to strengthen one's family bloodline - but, it would have to be seen as a noble way of doing so...