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Thread: Isaelie

  1. #1
    Junior Member Kell's Avatar
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    Isaelie

    Not sure if many people even visit these forums these days; but I thought of something as I was writing...a particular sentence that has bothered me to no end for years:

    "Isaelie has borne several half-elven children."

    Now, not only does this imply that she has 3 or more children; but that at LEAST 3 of them are Half-Elven. This made me come up with two main questions:

    1) Who are these children?

    2) If she has had several children, what does this say about the fertility of the Sidhelien in general?

    It sounds like Elves are fully capable of being very fertile; and though they may not procreate as often as humanity, they have had a LOT of time to make children since the wars that were first fought against the humans in realms like Isaelie's Sielwode which has never been explored by humans.

    Thoughts?

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    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    1. Whoever the DM wants them to be given that they aren't detailed in canon ;-)

    2. Good point, she's probably had quite a while though, I think one of the krynn books talked about one child a century for elves, which is plenty for a reasonable age sidhe to have many children, but likely not enough to give them major population growth given losses to goblins and humans.

    I would note that while the major wars with the humans are past, that doesn't mean that she hasn't had wars with human realms seeking to expand into the sielwode, or ongoing skirmishes and the like - just that the continent-wide wars have ended.

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    Junior Member Kell's Avatar
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    You are probably right.

    It is said the Sielwode was once connected to the Coulladaraight...most likely in what is now Kiergard; not to mention that where Markazor is now no doubt causes constant problems.

    I kind of see the Sielwode (which in my game the elves there call: Tir Sidhelien) much like Lothlórien in Middle-Earth. Goblins are terrified of its borders.

    Isaelie though has only been ruling for around 100 years...it makes me wonder who ruled before and what happened to them. Maybe Markazor hasn't always been so big and instead the last ruler died 100 years ago in battle against them? I dunno.

    Isaelie is my favorite elven monarch though in Cerilia...only because I treat her much like Galadriel.

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    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Just think about their social circle. It won't change much, so their attitudes to the people in it won't change. Unless their views on sex, monogamy and reproduction are different to the common human perspective, they won't have reason to have many kids, especially since it takes so long for the kids to grow up. Once they have a partner and kids, they may not see the need to change things for a long time.

    Sorontar

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    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorontar View Post
    Unless their views on sex, monogamy and reproduction are different to the common human perspective
    Sorontar
    For humans monogamy is directly tied to inheritance, binding families together, and the difficulty of survival without a partner to do the traditional role of the other gender - none of which are likely to apply to immortal sidhe in my view.

    A typical human girl would expect to marry around 15 and be a widow by 45 after bearing 10-12 children, most of whom would die in childhood of disease and quite possibly marry 2 or 3 times - usually within no more than a year of the previous hubby dying of disease, hunger or injury. In that sort of situation monogamy is vital to keep the family unit together as sex=reproduction is a continual reality (continually pregnant or recovering from it from late teens to the menopause).

    The sidhe girl of a hundred on the other hand has few of the sex=reproduction issues (given the usual view that the sidhe don't get pregnant easily) so probably sees them as separate issues, she is also much more self sufficient (unlike humans given lack of children or elderly to care for and not being pregnant half the time sidhe females are likely as active as sidhe males) so likely sees relationships as social rather than survival. Lack of inheritance generally (regents perhaps aside) means that in my view while the sidhe probably have 'friends with benefits' that they get together with on and off down the aeons, they are probably far more open in their relationships than humans - particularly if one of the partners is dallying with a human who will get old and undesirable in just a few decades (just enough time for the sidhe couple to get in the mood for a century or so perhaps).

    Your point on social circle is a good one, of kids I always saw it as an effect of low fertility rather than choice, for me the interesting point was that so much of human life revolves around having/raising children and caring for the elderly, that effectively lacking either (very few children and no elderly) the sidhe would be truly alien in perspective.

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    Junior Member Kell's Avatar
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    How does this effect Isaelie ruling her provinces to higher levels?

    I've often thought about how humans (perhaps even Dwarves) can rule their provinces up quite frequently...but elves not so easily; though I never thought of a good mechanic for this.

    Talking with a friend we discussed it and came up with the solution that an Elf Regent could rule as often as a human simply because it would represent elves from surrounding realms coming to that particular monarch's realm as much as anything else. Essentially Ruling a province up equals not only increased population from the natives of that province, but also immigration.

    Thoughts?

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    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    I can see ruling up as covering, in increasing order of probability:
    • Birthrate
    • Immigration - particularly if a neighbouring province is razed
    • Previously independent people accepting rule of the regent


    The sidhe and karamhul have a problem in that #2 and #3 probably wouldn't result in immigrants of their race although the sidhe could get seelie immigrants from the shadow world.

    For me the 'normal' reason for being able to rule up a province is the last, I can see that working well with the sidhe as my view of the sidhe is near-fey and as such many of them could simply be independent.

    Otherwise ruling up a province should, in my view, be very rare - literally once a generation, although I would probably be softer with very low level provinces.

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