Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    128
    Downloads
    6
    Uploads
    0

    Spiderfell province level

    Spiderfell province level is 0/7. In Gorgon's alliance is 5 because gameplay reasons, but wiki should be more canon.
    I am a little puzzled. Lore says the area is filled by goblins and gnolls while 0 level means very low population.

  2. #2
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    2,383
    Downloads
    30
    Uploads
    0
    The Spiderfell was always an oddity. It is too big to be a single province, that it is run collectively shouldn't impact the mechanical split.

    For the wiki I am uncertain, ideally we would refer to the canon level, but then note various options, it is fairly pointless having an empty province from a game-play perspective, unless you want to have a space for a realm to b created in (which is fine for Vosgaard, the Khinasi wilds or Aduria perhaps but not really an Anuirean thing)

    My preference would be:
    To split it into 3 provinces, a circular central fell and two 'c' shaped provinces that are either north/south or east/west. Then put in 3-4 levels of goblins in the 2 outer provinces and 4-5 in the centre.

    Put vassals in law and guild holdings, perhaps even a goblins sorcerer. Call all vassals by a title to avoid chaning names on your map every time the spider gets the munchies. Using vassals like that makes it easier to have (unstable) diplomacy and (likely illegal) trade which adds to game play.

    The source level would drop from the 'shiny 9' but that shouldn't be a big issue given lack of goblin casters and hostile reception to any wizardly interlopers.

    In practice the big defence for the Spiderfell has always been 'it isn't worth the trouble' for its neighbours, so I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to fund a huge goblin/spider army though.

  3. #3
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Thief River Falls, MN
    Posts
    497
    Downloads
    213
    Uploads
    19
    I was contemplating the Spiderfell these last few weeks while playing Crusader Kings II mod for Birthright. The domain as written doesn't function very well as quite often Diemed solo conquests it at some point in the game with little loss. The same goes for how it works mechanically in the Birthright game and the Gorgon's Alliance game. Like Rhuobhe it is one of those domains that begs for hidden mechanics or things not so obvious to be used to make it more formidable.

    I was thinking that the Spiderfell would work as a 4 province split mechanically for the war part of the game. There could even be sub levels where spider units could spawn from. I would use the spiders to be some form of attrition against the forces trying to occupy the space in the web-fortified woods. Or an attrition roll to current troops could work more simply to give that effect. The webbed woods I'd consider fortified to give a set time for how long it would take to make progress into it for the purposes occupation. I further considered dividing the four provinces down into fractions to make occupation progress even slower and more costly as working through the woods would be a major challenge. Fore example Spiderfell into 4 provinces and each province divided into 4 for 1 occupation action, thus requiring 4 of those for 1/4 of the woods to be fully occupied or 16 total for the entire place. This would limit the effect of joined forces speeding up the process, rather instead they just endure the attrition as a shared thing and not speeding up the time required to occupy that fraction of the woods.

    Effectively, I considered making a very difficult fortification of the Spiderfell to make all siege progress slow and small and cost a lot of men. This effect is only used defensively. Any sort of domain used within there I'd have destroyed when the entire place is occupied and all values 0 and no holdings, perhaps sparing the source, or not, but surely reducing it. I imagine it would take more than the neighboring realms joined together to take it down to make it worthwhile, otherwise I just don't feel it existing this long is justified.
    Last edited by Magian; 03-30-2019 at 12:25 PM.
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    435
    Downloads
    29
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by vota dc View Post
    Spiderfell province level is 0/7. In Gorgon's alliance is 5 because gameplay reasons, but wiki should be more canon.
    I am a little puzzled. Lore says the area is filled by goblins and gnolls while 0 level means very low population.
    Yeah, I've never liked that, nor have I liked the Province-Level-Equals-Population idea. BR print materials seem to have abandoned that with the Brechtur provinces, at the least, if not the others as well.

    There are variant Tribal rules, which treat Source levels (as indicators of undeveloped land -- again, not a great or consistent concept) as province levels for purpose of mustering tribal units or levies, where each level of Source = 1GB of tribal unit that could be raised. Replenishes at the rate of 1GB per season. So before going out in full force, such areas could build up to a number of units such that maintenance cost -- halved in a "garrison" -- could equal that source level.

    I agree with dividing Spiderfell into 3 provinces. Use both province level (and other slots) and Source level tribal rules. Then add 3 underground provinces.

    Consider all of them Fortified to max level, or even above (by magic if need -- Tal Qazar maybe can do Stronghold realm spells if you really feel a need to make it conform to rules).

    Then Spiderfell is really dangerous, and suitably nearly impossible to destroy (6 highly fortified provinces teeming with goblins, all sorts of terrain benefits for them, etc).

  5. #5
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    2,383
    Downloads
    30
    Uploads
    0
    Underdark provinces are a good idea, indeed you could have the under-dark go wider than the fell above ground to have more than 3 such provinces.

    I like the fortification rule from webs, and some sort of attrition to represent troop loss to poison, dangerous flora and fauna, etc.

    Overall my view was always 'too much trouble for too little reward' and 'kill the spider become the spider' bloodline power/ popular superstition that together deterred anyone even wanting to try - why seek out a fight if winning it meant losing your soul?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    364
    Downloads
    84
    Uploads
    0
    I always thought that level didn't refer to population so much as it did development. So, it might be very populous but with little infrastructure- goblins and other critters living within nature rather than tearing it down to build cities.

    So i guess i've never had a problem with the 0/7 split. I do like the underdark idea though- not just for here but gives me ideas for other places in Cerilia.

    -Fizz

  7. #7
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    2,383
    Downloads
    30
    Uploads
    0
    I had the link between level and actual population as fuzzy, effectively 'as much of the population as follows the regent' is recorded, although that is unfair on guilders and temples and doesn't really work with the inverse source rule.

    Underdark provinces are great, I use them routinely for karamhul and goblins, you don't even need a new map if you use [province name] under-dark to refer to them, slightly odd in that the borders underground are presumed to match above but it keeps things simple. Using shadow/spirit world provinces for sidhe/see or awnsheghlien can be a good way of expanding borders too - so perhaps you could have the spider fell linked to the shadow world so that invaders not only have the surface and underdark to contend with, but could also find that they've marched into the shadow world where the spiders minions are even more fell than usual.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    128
    Downloads
    6
    Uploads
    0
    With shadow provinces linked to Spiderfell, burning the forest and killing the Spider couldn't be still enough to avoid invasion unless you keep there a big garrison? After all if Spiderfell is just zero and the main spider nests and goblin homes are elsewhere winning there would just mean winning on the battlefield but they could regroup and retake the province when you move away your army.

  9. #9
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    2,383
    Downloads
    30
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by vota dc View Post
    With shadow provinces linked to Spiderfell, burning the forest and killing the Spider couldn't be still enough to avoid invasion unless you keep there a big garrison? After all if Spiderfell is just zero and the main spider nests and goblin homes are elsewhere winning there would just mean winning on the battlefield but they could regroup and retake the province when you move away your army.
    Yup, you'd only have taken some of the realm and the rest would still attack you. So you'd need to invade the shadow-world and underdark provinces and take them as well to fully defeat the realm.

    Alternatively you might be able to collapse enough tunnels to sever the link to the under-dark (though goblins are a burrowing people so that wouldn't last long) or do something to distance the Cerilian provinces from the Shadow world to restore the veil between the worlds (not sure what would do that, a quest of some sort and lots of realm spells I suspect).

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Province level
    By Rey in forum Main
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-19-2008, 09:27 AM
  2. Province Level & Population
    By Raesene Andu in forum BRCS 3.0/3.5 Edition
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-16-2005, 09:49 PM
  3. Province level vs population
    By Birthright-L in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-06-2002, 07:09 PM
  4. Sv: Province level vs population
    By Green Knight in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-04-2002, 09:19 PM
  5. Province level divisions
    By Bearcat in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-31-1998, 09:06 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.