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  1. #1

    Weapons Usable for Bloodtheft

    In all the reading I've done on bloodtheft and how it is done, I need some clarification. None of the descriptions of the act of bloodtheft (at least, in the books I have) say what kind of weapons can or cannot be used to commit bloodtheft. Whether a character is using a tighmaevril weapon or a normal weapon, does it have to be a melee weapon? If so, are they limited to slashing and piercing weapons, or can bludgeoning weapons be used as well? If someone is using a normal weapon, logic would say "yes" because the rules indicate they must pierce their opponent through the heart on the killing blow. However, it says nothing about tighmaevril having to pierce through the heart; it doesn't say anything about tighmaevril having any limiting factors of this nature, other than the killing blow must be with the tighmaevril weapon. So, could a character have arrows or bolts made of bloodsilver and be able to commit bloodtheft with them? Could they use a mace or flail made of tighmaevril?

    Thanks to all in advance who provide any answers.

    Lae'Andril Rayn

  2. #2
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    I would say it needs to be a melee weapon. The act of killing the scion through the heart is required to create a conduit from one character to another. It's a personal thing, stealing a bloodline.

    But if there isn't a character on the other side of the weapon, as in the case of an arrow or bolt, where is all the divine energy going to go? It'll just dissipate into nothingness.

    That's my view anyways, but it's not `official'. I don't know if there is an official ruling or not.


    -Fizz

  3. #3
    My view is the same as Fizz. Bloodtheft is a very up close and personal thing.

    I would say that it is anything that "pierces". It could even be a sharpened stake of wood. A blunt does not pierce, it crushes.

    I don't know what the sactioned ruling is, but the house rule of my campaign is no distance weapons.

    J

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    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    I am also in agreement about the melee requirement, and the idea of the act of bloodtheft opening a conduit for the divine energies of the ruptured bloodline.

    Also, all tighmaevriel weapons I have ever seen described are edged/pointed: swords, spears, daggers, etc. "Blood-shedding" seems to be a primary attribute of these weapons. Also, all of them are made by one elven smith...and I really have a hard time imagining any elven smith making a blunt, metal, melee weapon (mace, warhammer, morning star, or flail).

    Osprey

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    In 2nd the combatants had to meet in battle. In general this was considered melee since ranged attacks could be done for ambushes and not in battle per se.


    In the BRCS:

    However, because the scions divine essence is contained in his blood, this usurpation can only occur if a scion dies in a violent manner and his blood is literally spilt. If a blooded character dies non-violently, by poison, or a spell that doesn’t result in the spilling of blood, then the divine essence of their bloodline passes with them, either to their heir or to into the land itself if they had not designated a heir. However, if a scion’s blood is spilt as a result of his death in hand-to-hand combat then the divine essence of his or her birthright is released in a burst of immediate power.





    Bloodtheft

    If a blooded character is slain as the result of being pierced through the heart (via a coup de grace), then the victim's divine essence passes in its entirety, to the slayer whether or not he is blooded. Specifically slaying a scion through a blow to the heart to claim their bloodline is commonly referred to as bloodtheft. Bloodtheft also occurs when a scion is slain by a weapon made of bloodsilver (Tighmaevril).

    A scion that commits bloodtheft is not subject to any maximum limit for absorbing RP (normally twice the receiving scion's bloodline score). Furthermore, this regency is immediately used to raise the scion's bloodline score at the standard cost (one more than the current bloodline score).



    Coup de Grace:
    As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.


    You can do a coup de grace witha bow or crossbow if you are adjacent to the target and it still takes a full round action to perform. IMO using ranged weapons in this manner is wrong, but the RAW allows it and it was decided to follow the core rules as closely as possible. So it would be up to the DM to modify this one.

    Duane Eggert

  6. #6
    You know, in a magical world, there is nothing wrong with having a ranged weapon as bloodsilver and let me tell you why... You coup de gace someone from a distance of even 100 feet, that person is not going to be drained of blood by the time you reach them in... what... 2-3 rounds if it is all clear?

    I look at it like this... Bloodtheft is something that is not honorable, it was developed by the Awnsheghlien to destroy each other, not the Anurieans to settle duels. So, yes... Crossbow or longbow to the back, through the heart and bathing in blood of your enemy... That sounds awnsheghlien to me.

    I'd allow it in a heartbeat, ranged bloodtheft.

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    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeifVignirsson
    You know, in a magical world, there is nothing wrong with having a ranged weapon as bloodsilver and let me tell you why... You coup de gace someone from a distance of even 100 feet, that person is not going to be drained of blood by the time you reach them in... what... 2-3 rounds if it is all clear?

    I look at it like this... Bloodtheft is something that is not honorable, it was developed by the Awnsheghlien to destroy each other, not the Anurieans to settle duels. So, yes... Crossbow or longbow to the back, through the heart and bathing in blood of your enemy... That sounds awnsheghlien to me.

    I'd allow it in a heartbeat, ranged bloodtheft.
    You can't perform a coup de grace on an opponent with a bow or crossbow unless you are next to him or her; hence the "adjacent" thing mentioned in an earlier quote.

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    In 2nd ed there also was no such thing as a coup de grace (3/3.5 terminology/mechanic). In Player's Option: Combat and Tactics they had tables for "critical" hits with locations, etc. That was how we used the kiling bow through the heart thing and also a "called shot" to the heart with a 4 penalty to hit.
    Duane Eggert

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    Senior Member Doyle's Avatar
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    I feel that melee - 'up close and personal' is the way it should be - even for the Awnsheigh. The type of weapon can have a bit of variety though. The means of bloodtheft is peircing the heart - a spiked mace or flail will achieve that end with a strong enough blow - it's just a lot messier. I've allowed very strong monsters (vampires, trolls, ghouls) to use their hands / fists / claws to smash through the rib cage and bloodtheft by rending the heart. I'd say anything that could open up the heart at melee range is good.
    Missile weapons should also be ok, but only at melee range ("Dodge this" - Trinity), although at that range there'd have to be a good reason why the character isn't using a melee weapon - cinematic roleplay counts as a good reason.

    Back to those that hunt down scions for blood theft rather than it just 'happening in the heat of battle'. I can see a huge popularity in 'arrows / bolts of paralysation'. Snipe the victim until it stops moving (fails a save) and then rush down and then run it through.

    ...must remember to remove that sort of ammunition from the home campaign...

    Doyle

  10. #10
    Senior Member ausrick's Avatar
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    It seems that usurpation is less precise than bloodtheft, and thus nets less precise results, and that bloodsilver nets you the results of bloodtheft for the price of usurpation.

    Since the requirements of usurpation are death through spilt blood, it would seem that bows, crossbows, throwing axes, firearms, etc. would meet this requirement from whatever range increment. Also, bludgeoning might if it was brutal enough to cause blood loss. It might be a bit of a crap-shoot. fist fight, possibly not, but baseball bat from the scene from the movie "The Untouchables" where Capone does batting practice at the dinner table, that is definitely spilt blood. Also, the Morning star, it is a Peircing and bludgeoning weapon, and though I would say it may be hard to hurt the heart with it, when it comes to spilling blood, they didn't nick name it the Holywater Sprinkler for nothing. I always kind of imagine usurpation as being messier, splattering the dead scion's divine essence all over the place.

    Now to actually blood theft, coup de grace is required which puts you in melee range and you get to take your time about it. To meet the peircing of the heart I would outlaw bludgeoning unless you can somehow argue that the person would be able to generate enough force/cause enough damage to open the chest and open the heart. a club swung by a human, unlikely. super human monk with the kung-fu-action-movie-punch-through-torso-hole-action, +10 str Ogre with a club, or a semi truck could all be feasable at the DM's discretion. I don't know if it is written anywhere, but back in 2nd edition we had a rule that if someone went to -40 hp then their corpse was too dismembered/destroyed/gibbed-like-in-Quake to be raised and they needed a true ressurrection. For massive blunt trauma to cause enough damage to the chest cavity to substantiate blood theft you might use a rule where the blunt weapon coup de grace would have to be capable of at least 40 points of damage in order to bloodtheft with it.

    The beauty of bloodsilver is that you "could" blood theft with a blunt or ranged attack ammunition made out of it. However since there was supposedly only one smith that knew how to make it, and he was elven I don't see this as being a cannonical possibility. Elves don't strike me as typically putting a lot of value on bludgeoning weapons. and the difficulty of working the bloodsilver would make arrow and bolt tips unlikely. anything made of bloodsilver would have been meant to be kept and charished, ammunition has a way of not sticking around.

    However, it could be a fun plot hook to have rumor of a bloodsilver mace. The questions would immediately go to who made it, why, and where did it come from. It would be considereably more rare than the already legendarily rare bloodsilver weapons already in existance. and the possibility that somebody else (possibly from a race that prizes bludgeoning weapons more) had the ability to craft bloodsilver weaponry could be played up in a way that could be utterly terrifiying to cerillia. Again though, the existance of a bloodsilver mace is anything but BRCS cannon.

    A fun house rule though, we've always played that bloodtheft could happen from a peirced heart OR a severed head. something about severing the head just seemed to fit with our campaign style. And it made vorpal weapons all the more prized/expensive/feared because on a good critical it skipped the need for a coup de grace even.
    Last edited by ausrick; 01-04-2006 at 09:25 PM.
    Regards,
    Ausrick

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