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  1. #1
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    Some Advice and Basic Sound-off of Ideas.

    Ok, i will keep this relatively short and to the point.

    My first question/advice seeking is related to Noble Houses and the Realms.

    Stick to the Southern States as that is my base for my tabletop games, both Realm ruling and general Adventuring. (Running Age of Worms, altered for Birthright...works very well)

    Ok, how many Noble Houses would each realm feasibly have? You obviously have the ruling Family of each Country, but then provinces, would you have one Major Household and several minor?

    The idea i had was to use the actual Province rating to Determine number of Noble Families found within that Province? (not ideal when province level is raised, but for starters gives a defined figure) Does this sound resonable? too many, too few?

    I was thinking of working off the Community modifiers and use overall province population level to determine number of aristocrat classes, but then you have the problem of splitting those into what can soemtimes be quite convulated family trees.

    Any Advice for this? Ideas? Thoughts?


    My second and more important question is;
    The Imperial City of Anuire is a city but functions very similar to a Province.

    What my idea was, was to actaully make each Kingdoms Capitol/or Cities each also count as a little Province much like the Imperial City of Anuire, with some guidelines on surrounding Province for max level etc....to keep it in check (kind of like how holdings work).

    But the problem i think would be the existing Holdings already in each Province are obviously based within the capitol (major setlement) of each province, so how Could you work this out? I thought that the Existing Holdings are the influence over the countryside/rural folk as opposed to the city dwellers.

    What i'm really askign in reagrds to this city style, is would you feel it imbalancing? cumbersome? unrealistic? Not suited to flavour? Good idea? Thoughts? Opinions?

    Hope this makes sense?

  2. #2
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    Some Advice and Basic Sound-off of Ideas.

    In a message dated 12/23/05 6:00:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
    brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:

    << Ok, how many Noble Houses would each realm feasibly have? You obviously
    have the ruling Family of each Country, but then provinces, would you have one
    Major Household and several minor?

    The idea i had was to use the actual Province rating to Determine number of
    Noble Families found within that Province? (not ideal when province level is
    raised, but for starters gives a defined figure) Does this sound resonable? too
    many, too few?

    I was thinking of working off the Community modifiers and use overall
    province population level to determine number of aristocrat classes, but then you
    have the problem of splitting those into what can soemtimes be quite convulated
    family trees.

    Any Advice for this? Ideas? Thoughts? >>

    Using the province levels might not be a bad starting point. I figure a
    state should have its ruling family, and then each province could have one or
    more noble families. IIRC, the Anuirean titles originally labelled province
    holders as Barons, multiple provinces as Counts.
    Let`s define "noble" for Cerilian purposes as blooded, that is, able to
    rule effectively. Wealthy families with long detailed family trees and a
    history of military service to the crown we could downgrade to "gentry." They
    would be the knights and sheriffs and mid-level church officials and tax
    collectors and so on.
    If you want to get down to this level of detail, then go for it. Making
    the detailed family trees is some complex stuff, I wish there were more of it.
    Maybe you could copy some historical family trees, changing the names but
    following the forms.

    << My second and more important question is;
    The Imperial City of Anuire is a city but functions very similar to a
    Province.

    What my idea was, was to actaully make each Kingdoms Capitol/or Cities each
    also count as a little Province much like the Imperial City of Anuire, with
    some guidelines on surrounding Province for max level etc....to keep it in check
    (kind of like how holdings work).>>

    This sounds like too much work to be worth doing, IMO.

    Lee.

  3. #3
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    As to your first question;
    You might want to get your hands on some of the 'Player's Secrets of ....' booklets. The ones set in Anuire generally go thu province by province and describe the local lesser nobles. IIRC, the basic layout was roughly one noble family/house per province. Some provinces had no noble family at all but were given a sheriff, mayor, or some other non-noble officical appointed by the regent. Only some of these nobles were blooded and usually had weak blood if any. These 'nobles' dont ever perform domain actions so dont need RP or blood really.

    Having one noble family per province level will quickly give you a cast of hundreds. Even if you only flesh out one realm where your action is centered, that is a lot of families. If your looking for a chaotic political landscape or want to have a mass of nameless nobles from which to pull characters, that would be the way to go.

    As the basic unit of action in BR (2ed and 3.x) is the province having roughly one family per province matches up nicely. You can establish recurring characters that your players get to know. A little story can be made around performing an action in a province with the local noble family a personification of the abstract die roll and bonuses. And if you need a pull a random noble out of thin air, cousin of Count <Established Name> or neice of Sheriff of <province X> works nicely. And below these influential provincial families there can still be the knights and petty nobility that fill out the Anuirean social strata.

    Id recommend figuring out your storytelling style and the interests of your players before you worry about the numbers of these minor characters. If the campaign is going to be about large scale conquest on the way to the Iron Throne with a climatic confrontation with the Gorgon, then worry more about the NPC regents of other realms and not so much about Sir Bob of Littleville.

  4. #4
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    In the d20 BRCS playtest I believe there is a table that shows what the population is roughly per province level. You could use that plus the chart in the DMG for % of aristicrat to get a rough guess. Though you could assume that a good number of them are related to the point of belonging to the same household etc. That could give you the total number of the aristocracy per region, though that would include all the gentry.

    The players Secrets books, as a rule assume that for most of Anuire, each realm has one noble family in charge of each province. These are normally non-blooded or tainted "vassals" (in the historical sense, not in the BR regency sense) to the realm's regent and carry out his/her will more or less (plotting and scheming included). Often times in the Players secrets they hold the title of count/countess or something equal in stature. at that level there is only one household per province.

    Now, the general rule I follow for adventure level political playing. If your pc's get embroiled in one province, particularly the capital of a realm. I make anywhere from half the province level to equal to the province level of families, give them a name, and some basic notes about their house outlook and alignment. Try to mix it up so there will be opportunities for tension. These are the political players at the local level. These take quite a bit of work to flesh out so I only do them for provinces where the PC's are going to be at for a long time or come back to often. These people really have no power in politics outside of the province or maybe realm, but they add a lot of flavor for local issues like peasant uprisings, taxation, or abuse of the office of Shire Reeve.

    The next teir down are the no-name land holders. I really just make a map that is split off into manors/fiefs and make a pot of aristocrat names to draw from. as the PC's ride or walk about they may decide to stop at a house, or if the PC's are regents and are roleplaying different court functions or are demanding scutage in preparation for war and are role-playing it etc. then I have a hat to pull names out of, throw in some ad-libbing and I come off looking like I really prepared

    again, this is just how i've done it, and it really depends on how your campaign and players are going and what macro/micro level or scope you are working at. I used to be the kind of DM that was expert of just pulling out great story and characters out of my rump at the drop of a hat, then I took a few years off from gaming, and tried it again with disasterous results. Now I'm the type of DM that overly prepares, and will spend months mapping out the king's castle and all the chambers just to get frustrated when my players don't hang around for the grand tour. I think it's called over compensating.
    Regards,
    Ausrick

  5. #5
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    [/QUOTE]
    I used to be the kind of DM that was expert of just pulling out great story and characters out of my rump at the drop of a hat, then I took a few years off from gaming, and tried it again with disasterous results. Now I'm the type of DM that overly prepares, and will spend months mapping out the king's castle and all the chambers just to get frustrated when my players don't hang around for the grand tour. I think it's called over compensating. [/QUOTE]

    I know that feeling wholeheartedly indeed.

    Thanks for all the answers guys.

    A lot of the advice i've already implemented or had thought before suggestion.
    The player's secrets books are a little vague to say the least, take Medoere, the high prefect of the church can call on 20 noble families for support? now given how politics work, i would imagine that his enemies at least number that many! but are they listed, nope....and with the rough guidelines of 1 per province, makes for a massive disparaging number of missing families.

    I've gone for major of about 1 family per province, with one being the "Ruler" of the province, i incidently made them blooded families, then non-blooded ones i have doubled, then doubled again for minor families.....it does create a large number of families and aristocrats, but i think birthright should benefit from this.

    Of course in lightly populated areas, like erebannien etc, i have reduced this massively.

    Though i have increased population sizes long ago from those stated in 2ed and the BRCS, they always struck me as being a little low, especially compared to other published settings. The distance between places i increased too....again as most peopel say, it always fealt a little artificially small.

    Enough rambling for now.

    Now i have to create heraldry, family sizes and important npcs for each fmaily......of course a lot of work, but i love the creation aspect of it so much.

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