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  1. #1
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    Birthright re-envisioned with modern board game styles?

    Has anyone considered re-envisioning or re-building Birthright with some of the current board game innovations in mind?

    I wonder if the game could be played much faster (and possibly much more satisfyingly) if the Domain Turn actions in particular, but also mass battles and even quick adventures could be played out in some of the common board game modes:

    --Worker placement/resource management strategy game seems to lend well to turns (and rapidly moving through turns); Lords of Waterdeep, Scythe

    --Build games

    --Wargames/skirmish for battles

    --Deck building/drafting (though this may be suspect; perhaps at an adventure or regent level)

    --Variant RPGs/strategy games like Gloomhaven, Twilight Imperium, Descent (though I'm not very familiar with these)

    I wonder if some of these can be simulated without having to have a physical game board, pieces, cards, etc, or an app. Just sort of use a form.


    Seems like games have come a long way in the past 10 years, and a lot can be learned from the well-designed ones.

    Some of the weaknesses of BR have been complexity and time commitment involved in managing domain turns and battles, or adventures. Wonder if those could be addressed by borrowing concepts.

    I still think in terms of things that could support the PBEM/Play-by-Post community. Allow the narrative and diplomacy with easier/more satisfying game systems to support.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mirviriam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    Has anyone considered re-envisioning or re-building Birthright with some of the current board game innovations in mind?

    I wonder if the game could be played much faster (and possibly much more satisfyingly) if the Domain Turn actions in particular, but also mass battles and even quick adventures could be played out in some of the common board game modes:

    --Worker placement/resource management strategy game seems to lend well to turns (and rapidly moving through turns); Lords of Waterdeep, Scythe

    --Build games

    --Wargames/skirmish for battles

    --Deck building/drafting (though this may be suspect; perhaps at an adventure or regent level)

    --Variant RPGs/strategy games like Gloomhaven, Twilight Imperium, Descent (though I'm not very familiar with these)

    I wonder if some of these can be simulated without having to have a physical game board, pieces, cards, etc, or an app. Just sort of use a form.


    Seems like games have come a long way in the past 10 years, and a lot can be learned from the well-designed ones.

    Some of the weaknesses of BR have been complexity and time commitment involved in managing domain turns and battles, or adventures. Wonder if those could be addressed by borrowing concepts.

    I still think in terms of things that could support the PBEM/Play-by-Post community. Allow the narrative and diplomacy with easier/more satisfying game systems to support.
    I had many many thoughts on this when designing the shared db we were going to use back in 2012 (documented in the Legacy of kings section of this forums) and making it to the point which we could have running pbem tool which could be customized for actions was the hold up for me.

    I had thought take 2nd Ed rules into the tool. Then use how they work as a guide. Make hooks to load allowed actions and such ... Then tweak the values via configuration board etc.

    My tool set is server based with rails, so not portable though & would require $ to run.

    I am learning some JavaScript lately and that can work anywhere. I made a Ruby on rails board game registration,sign up system, display games status etc like 2 years ago ... Could really be used for any risk like board game with any stats you want to track. It's pretty prototype and never released.
    Last edited by Mirviriam; 12-13-2019 at 10:42 PM.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Mirviriam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post

    --Variant RPGs/strategy games like Gloomhaven, Twilight Imperium, Descent (though I'm not very familiar with these)

    I wonder if some of these can be simulated without having to support.
    Boardgamegeeks has playable online versions of twilight & most modern board games ... For like 8 years.
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    I've already been working on a gaming system that would be open in application for what settings get used. It's a bit more forward heavy, meaning that you do have to allocate workers in the initial stages / turns, but once it gets done it actually would speed up turn action decisions.

    The down side would be that there is more in depth resource tracking, so it may not be actually more efficient for something like Birthright. Open to idea sharing though.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Mirviriam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Johnny View Post
    I've already been working on a gaming system that would be open in application for what settings get used. It's a bit more forward heavy, meaning that you do have to allocate workers in the initial stages / turns, but once it gets done it actually would speed up turn action decisions.

    The down side would be that there is more in depth resource tracking, so it may not be actually more efficient for something like Birthright. Open to idea sharing though.
    So are you familiar with game design theory or video game design theory at all?

    I'm thinking "engines" if you are ... we have a list of steps by classification to be executed. The system or "engine" doesn't care what they are ... it's fed a metric or set of values that decide the order they execute in ... aka "graph" if you're familiar with that term in in mathematics or programming?

    We never really cleared the database level and I got busy in systems which involved more than 6 people trying to make system in a copyrighted intellectual property back then...but the idea is the same ...

    You need an API or engine that based on requirements - orders all possible moves, then resolves them based on importantly & calls to other sub-moves like counter spell or checks to see if they suceed then affects the maps, etc.

    If you aren't familiar with the java PBEM system, you need to stop what you're doing and examine it - it's hardcoded, but the basis for any program or script you will write that isn't a waste of your time.
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  6. #6
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    I'm going to have to assume that I'm not. I've designed some game systems before, as far as down the mechanics in a way that's a lot closer to a hard copy of a rulebook, as opposed to writing algorithms. I've done a little bit of programming about 14 years ago. I did pretty well at the time, but lost track of it due to a lot of real life factors, and I just haven't picked it back up.

    I'm pretty good on game conceptualization, as well as building base mechanics that then allow all the other tidbits to get done.

    If you're interested, feel free to message me here to get a more concrete form of communication.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mirviriam's Avatar
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    There's an already made version of birthright that's basically domain controller for the DM to use ...

    http://birmail.sourceforge.net/main_dl.html

    It includes almost everything you could want or need & had been used for like 15 years or more?

    If I was redoing the system into a modern one I'd use their outlines as and a translator file to apply metrics based on some computed formula of power rather than self balancing.

    My 2 cents - but also - if you aren't going to copy birthright's mailer tool - don't use anything from it - so the lawyers can't get you.
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