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  1. #1
    Moo! Are you happy now? Arjan's Avatar
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    Birthright Open world mmo

    Ever since the birthright gorgons alliance game i have been thinking about how cool if there were some updated (new) game for birthright.. even more an MMO where we all can enjoy our favorite setting.
    imo the birthright setting is perfect for an mmo.. its history, the awnshegs, the domains.. well everything

    lately i have been combining a lot of these ideas on "how would you implement this in an mmo" and i think i got the circle round!

    what i love about the bioware games is the story telling. especially in SWTOR you have the feeling the wholes game is build around you personally and you are the most important person in the game.
    - if i were to translate to "what would i do in a BR-mmo" is to have the 6 human origin stories that drag the player from aduria during the flight of the shadow to anuire, and ending with the big bang massive battle of mount deismaar.
    By then the player should understand what is BR and who are the main characters and how they became who they are.
    (you can skip the whole story if you like and go directly to Anuire, but you will stay unblooded

    when the story ends (or go directly) the mmo starts.
    the usual questing and crafting, dungeon and raids to reach max level.

    but what would be really birthright that other games dont have.. domains and holdings.

    for that you have guilds. where guilds can construct things real time in the game, make cities grow like in the real world.
    where characters professions help providing the necesary skills and materials to do so.
    where guild can build up influence in an area (doing quests, donating stuff to nps whatever we come up with.. bribing system for npc or so) to actually create a holding.. or even destroy a holding(level)

    build your own legacy.. create your own family with PC's and the more you play them the more you level up your family legacy opening more player perks (perhaps even attach the bloodline strenth to the legacy level)

    further more, open world exploring and discovering (ancient) secrets of the world (other races, mysteries of the leylines) open world events, perhaps by accident end up in the shadowworld


    so with these ideas i have been doing some research on how and with what game engine this would be posible to achieve.
    things i have kept in mind is the cost ofcourse. (simply dont have a couple of mil to go to a game developer and ask them to do it...and what is the fun if you dont do it yourself?
    So with the cost and accessibility there is really only 2 platforms to choose between which are the Unreal engine and Unity.
    Both are cool engines and "quite easy" to work with, but i have chosen Unity to build in a prototype. (reason is i felt that unreal was leaning more towards a first person type of game)

    so what do you guys think? any of you have any experience with these? willing to help out?

    i am all ears
    Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.

  2. #2
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    I have no experience with it, but obviously wish you the best with it.

  3. #3
    Moo! Are you happy now? Arjan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTall View Post
    I have no experience with it, but obviously wish you the best with it.
    thnx andy, you might not have xp in computer programming, but you do in character building, lore, quests and fluf , which might even be more important than the programming itself
    Last edited by Arjan; 09-14-2017 at 03:21 AM.
    Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.

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    Administrator Arius Vistoon's Avatar
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    hi,
    you speak about 2 choices : unreal engine and unity.
    For me, there are another choice (very good for MMO beacause it's already inside, nothing to do !!) it's Lumberyard

    i already try it (not long time) for a similar project but in Virtual reality (with oculus rift headset) and it seems easy to take in hand.

    yes i can help a little (my problem it's not enough time !!!)

  5. #5
    Moo! Are you happy now? Arjan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arius Vistoon View Post
    hi,
    you speak about 2 choices : unreal engine and unity.
    For me, there are another choice (very good for MMO beacause it's already inside, nothing to do !!) it's Lumberyard

    i already try it (not long time) for a similar project but in Virtual reality (with oculus rift headset) and it seems easy to take in hand.

    yes i can help a little (my problem it's not enough time !!!)
    ah yes, lumeryard, its actually the cry engine bought by amazon. did read about it. ill take a more dept lookinto this.
    can you share a bit more about your experience with lumberyard?

    i chose between the two because of their wide acceptability and widely available courses, tutorial and assets where lumberjack is fairly new and takes some time to get people over from the other two
    Last edited by Arjan; 09-14-2017 at 01:39 PM.
    Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.

  6. #6
    Administrator Arius Vistoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjan View Post
    ah yes, lumeryard, its actually the cry engine bought by amazon. did read about it. ill take a more dept lookinto this.
    can you share a bit more about your experience with lumberyard?

    i chose between the two because of their wide acceptability and widely available courses, tutorial and assets where lumberjack is fairly new and takes some time to get people over from the other two
    my "experience" (very short) is :
    i create an island (with a forest, a big river and a small town with 4 buildings and a light street). i put my headset for virtual reality and it's done !
    i can create and test in VR in the same time.
    I take all free asset from the website and there are a "game ready" too (i don't try).

    what i know/feels :
    there are less people know it (very less !!) ; the community is small
    there are lot of tutorial and a few "ready to use" (unity and unreal, more unity in fact are of course lot of tuturial but lot of it's very old)
    it's new code (yes the origin it's cry engine but amazone change more than half of the old code with new technology in mind (virtual reality)
    the software it's free except if you use multiplayer of amazone (but you can create your own server if you want)
    you can easy use cloud and all aws features
    you can use twitch
    the interface is nice

  7. #7
    Moo! Are you happy now? Arjan's Avatar
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    So i have been doing some Udemy courses on Unity, and a few times i though i might have chosen the wrong engine over the Unreal engine.

    But after learning that Hearthstone and Albion Online are made in Unity and the truth is that C# suits me better then C++ I have been actually happy with my choice.

    But i have a question for you guys since there are quite some MMO(RPG) variants out there

    There is the top down variant with a click to attack kind of system like Diablo, Path of Excile, Albion Online. And most of them are quite cartoony/sketchy in style

    Then you have of course the warcraft, swtor, skyrim online etc where you move the character around yourself with keys/game-pad. this gives the user more the idea he is in control of the character instead of clickbashing.
    The latter come around in various styles, the cartoony-realistic where the anatomy of the character is "human style", other come in cartoony fantasy style like warcraft and there is the close to realistic style like Skyrim online which gives awesome real looking views and landscapes and cities etc.

    what type and style would you like to see for birthright?
    Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.

  8. #8
    Administrator Arius Vistoon's Avatar
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    for some years, i don't playing with non-vr game, i don't like anymore flat game so i'm not the good player to answer. Now, i need move by myself in the game like i'm really in the game, not with some keyboard or gamepad. I need negociate, do diplomaty and some interaction by myself in game and so on (likethe game wolf within)

    But, before, i like game like withcher 3 (ok, this one it's not MMO) and Guild wars style and the very old Neverwinternight (the number 1 not the 2...) for the free style of Dungeons master XP and alignement in the game.

    For me, you can choose "low" graphic for beginning and change step by step the graphic like the game Subnautica.

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    Would love to see something like this...but if you were thinking characters walking about in a built-out world, maybe something less ambitious, first?

    Sounds like the project would be immensely art intensive and time intensive to build everything out for the world, much less the story, scenarios, equipment, detail, AI, etc.

    What about starting with a map-based Turn Based Strategy game that focuses on that which makes Birthright unique -- the domain level play? Like Gorgon's Alliance without the adventuring or battlefield?

    Total War and similar have created a massive barrier to entry in creating competitive battlefield combat. And the 1st or 3rd person RPG is a flooded market. Domain level play, truly strategy/diplomacy MMO based (not tactical, and not based on ages and unrealistic tech trees and such like Civ and Empire) is much more rare, and core to the Birthright concept.

    I've wondered about building that for some time. I think you'd just need some good maps, and then build interactivity on the maps for getting into all the domain-level assets, tied of course to the database and rules engines, turn submissions sheets/action interfaces, and then resolution. And AI for NPCs.

    That seems much more attainable to me than RPG and battlefield. Those could be future projects if the first is successful.

    Heck, just having that map interface as the core of PBEMs would breathe new life into this community!

    And seriously, really improving on Gorgon's Alliance (without the adventures or battlefields) and with the Editor and many options for tweaking rules, levels of complexity, etc., would be awesome.

    I mean, you'd need something for military action resolution, but that may have to start with wargame-like blocks on a field, turn-based layout and action description. I'm sure lots of us would love to see Total War: Birthright (with perhaps easier to manage yet more realistic/simulationist wargaming), but that seems a lot to shoot for.

  10. #10
    Moo! Are you happy now? Arjan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    Would love to see something like this...but if you were thinking characters walking about in a built-out world, maybe something less ambitious, first?
    i think all type of games are ambitious and require a lot of dedication especially when its an indie game/fan based creation.
    but that doesnt mean things can be done step wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    Sounds like the project would be immensely art intensive and time intensive to build everything out for the world, much less the story, scenarios, equipment, detail, AI, etc.
    sure, but that depends. my idea is to NOT (over) develop areas/domains/cities too much but leave for the players itself.
    ie the timeline just after the battle of mount deismaar. just a few cities/major hubs exists and the rest are settlements.
    they would have to explore the world gather/buy/trade the resources to build the actual cities/domains
    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    What about starting with a map-based Turn Based Strategy game that focuses on that which makes Birthright unique -- the domain level play? Like Gorgon's Alliance without the adventuring or battlefield?

    Total War and similar have created a massive barrier to entry in creating competitive battlefield combat. And the 1st or 3rd person RPG is a flooded market. Domain level play, truly strategy/diplomacy MMO based (not tactical, and not based on ages and unrealistic tech trees and such like Civ and Empire) is much more rare, and core to the Birthright concept.

    I've wondered about building that for some time. I think you'd just need some good maps, and then build interactivity on the maps for getting into all the domain-level assets, tied of course to the database and rules engines, turn submissions sheets/action interfaces, and then resolution. And AI for NPCs.
    sure, many of us have that same idea, i actually think a good strategy game is way more ambitious then an open world/survival game.
    but that being said, and rts or turn based game is another type of game that also would be cool.
    take a look at albion online that is actually an interesting game

    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    That seems much more attainable to me than RPG and battlefield. Those could be future projects if the first is successful.

    Heck, just having that map interface as the core of PBEMs would breathe new life into this community!

    And seriously, really improving on Gorgon's Alliance (without the adventures or battlefields) and with the Editor and many options for tweaking rules, levels of complexity, etc., would be awesome.
    with all the web techniques out there nowadays with the drag and drop it should be too hard to create that. and miviriam has everything ready in a SQL file (should be posted on the site somewhere too)
    Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.

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