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Thread: Coats of Arms

  1. #1
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    Coats of Arms

    Hi all-

    Does anyone know where i could find a collection of the Coat of Arms for several domains of Cerilia? I'm looking for something like an index, i guess.

    Thanks!

    -Fizz
    Last edited by Fizz; 12-10-2005 at 05:19 AM.

  2. #2
    Don´t know where this is from but could be somewhat useful. I know there are alot of errors to canon but its a list:-)

  3. #3

    Smile

    The ones on the "Birthright Conspectus" look like "national" CoAs, not personal ones.

    In Ruins of Empire, the rulers tended to be depicted wearing their CoAs. For example, Aeric Boeruine has two lions combatant Or, beneath a crown ancient or. I think the field is purple. Darian Avan's is a red field with a gold Imperial Eagle. I can't remember if it has a crown or not. Ghoere's seemed to have a dragon or wyvern on it. I can't remember the field color, I'll have to go hunt up the Ruins of Empire. Ther Mhor's didn't make much sense to me.

    We made up CoAs for a lot of the nobility because the coats of arms on the PS covers did not follow the rules of heraldry for the most part.

    In our campaign every major and minor noble has a coat of arms, so it's something we've looked at in a major way. To the point on a 15mm battle board, you can tell who's who. (but we're gluttons for historic detail. )

    Jenn

  4. #4

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    Okay.

    From Ruins of Empire and the Conspectus:

    Imperial Coat of Arms of Anuire: Or, a two headed eagle displayed gules, membered argent, with a serpent vert in its talons.

    Translations: Yellow field, Red two headed eagle with white legs with a green snake in its claws.

    Roesone: Red field, Gold Circle with a Black Hart's head. I'm going to say crouped, because it is cut off at the base.

    Boeruine: Purple, two lions combatant or ( purple field, two gold rampant lions facing each other). I think in the adventure "The Sword and Crown" there is a gold crown over the lions.

    Talinie: Argent, a bear statant azure. (white shield, blue bear standing on its hind legs)

    Darian Avan: Gules, and Imperial Eagle displayed Or. (Red shield, gold two headed eagle with wings fanned out)

    Ghoere: Red shield Gold wyvern. Can't see if it's two headed.

    The Mhor: This ones breaks a few rules, but as it shows in Ruins...
    Quartered 1 - 4: Blue field, gold scales; 2-3: white field and I can't tell what color the sword is. It looks white. in which case that's white on white and it wouldn't be visible on a battle field.

    Speculation: The Gorgons would probably be some varient of the Imperial CoA. After all he is a "prince of the blood" (member of the Royal house).

    Hope that helps.

    Jenn
    Last edited by Rhiannon Faramiriel; 12-11-2005 at 01:44 AM. Reason: Sentence correction.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhiannon Faramiriel
    Ghoere: Red shield Gold wyvern. Can't see if it's two headed.

    The Mhor: This ones breaks a few rules, but as it shows in Ruins...
    Quartered 1 - 4: Blue field, gold scales; 2-3: white field and I can't tell what color the sword is. It looks white. in which case that's white on white and it wouldn't be visible on a battle field.
    It would be most natural if Ghoere's wyvern is double headed. If single headed, it ought to be looking the other way.

    The swords in the Mhor's shield look somewhat bluish, I think. That would fit with the rules.

  6. #6

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by AKjeldsen
    It would be most natural if Ghoere's wyvern is double headed. If single headed, it ought to be looking the other way.
    Actually in the rules of heraldry, a charge can be looking in any direction. Usually the herald would note whether it was facing dexter (right) which is the standard orientation and rarely cited since it is proper, or sinister (left) which is an unusual facing. I just didn't note that in the original blazon since I wasn't sure.

    The swords in the Mhor's shield look somewhat bluish, I think. That would fit with the rules.
    If they are blue, then it would be correct. If they are white outlined in black, it would make him difficult to distinguish on a battlefield, and that's really what heraldry was all about, to ID people on a field at a distance. Which is why when I see people use red on black, black on blue, it breaks the color on color rule, because at a distance, you can't really distinguish what you're looking at. But formal rules of heraldry really didn't start to solidify until the 14th and 15th centuries.

    There are examples of metal on metal, but these tend to be ecclesiastical or rare instances like the king of Jerusalem (not as in the movie "Kingdom of Heaven").

    Cheers,

    J
    Last edited by Rhiannon Faramiriel; 12-11-2005 at 02:52 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Thomas_Percy's Avatar
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    I think coat of arm is not mere a logo such as IBM which can be be changed due to marketing needs.
    Coat of arm is a history of house, but most of all history of house's bloodline and as such it should be signicant and linked with magical (blood) abilities of the family.
    For example:
    Two gryphons of Boeruine.
    Why two griffons?
    What is a prime griffon feature, does Boeruines have this feature?
    Are they fierce warriors, can they fly, can summon gryphons? etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhiannon Faramiriel
    Actually in the rules of heraldry, a charge can be looking in any direction. Usually the herald would note whether it was facing dexter (right) which is the standard orientation and rarely cited since it is proper, or sinister (left) which is an unusual facing. I just didn't note that in the original blazon since I wasn't sure.
    Just make sure that you don't confuse the issue by failing to note that sinister and dexter are based on the perspective of the bearer of the Arms. If you are the one holding the shield, your left becomes the viewer's right, so to the layman, sinister then appears to be on the right side of the shield.

    If they are blue, then it would be correct. If they are white outlined in black, it would make him difficult to distinguish on a battlefield, and that's really what heraldry was all about, to ID people on a field at a distance. Which is why when I see people use red on black, black on blue, it breaks the color on color rule, because at a distance, you can't really distinguish what you're looking at. But formal rules of heraldry really didn't start to solidify until the 14th and 15th centuries.
    I agree -- fimbriation doesn't really help swords -- only simple geometric shapes.

    There are examples of metal on metal, but these tend to be ecclesiastical or rare instances like the king of Jerusalem (not as in the movie "Kingdom of Heaven").
    Examples of colour on colour are much more prevalent, and are usually found in Germanic heraldry, where red/black combos were often used, despite the poor contrast.

    -Mike (SCA herald)
    "It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."

    - R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas_Percy
    I think coat of arm is not mere a logo such as IBM which can be be changed due to marketing needs.
    Coat of arm is a history of house, but most of all history of house's bloodline and as such it should be signicant and linked with magical (blood) abilities of the family.
    For example:
    Two gryphons of Boeruine.
    Why two griffons?
    What is a prime griffon feature, does Boeruines have this feature?
    Are they fierce warriors, can they fly, can summon gryphons? etc.
    There is usually another reason for odd Arms. Sometimes they derive from a tribal totem, sometimes a nickname, sometimes they are a 'cant' or visual pun on a name. If Boeruine bears lions, maybe it is based on the worship of Andurias, whose totem animal was the lion?

    -Mike (SCA herald)
    "It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."

    - R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos69
    Just make sure that you don't confuse the issue by failing to note that sinister and dexter are based on the perspective of the bearer of the Arms. If you are the one holding the shield, your left becomes the viewer's right, so to the layman, sinister then appears to be on the right side of the shield.
    I neglected to point that out. Thanks.

    I'm not in the SCA, but I am a student of medieval martial/chivalric culture and heraldry as it is in the "mundane" world , especially in England and Europe.

    Germany does tend to use more color on color. I would tend to follow such aspects for Brecht heraldry. I would apply French and English traditions to Anuire.

    Direction change:

    Just a curiosity question, what source lists Boeruines charges as gryphons (griffons)? Every pic I've ever seen shows lions and it would make sense from his bloodline derivation and that the lion is Anduiras' totem animal.
    Last edited by Rhiannon Faramiriel; 12-12-2005 at 12:42 AM.

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