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  1. #11
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    With mebhaighl indicating strong magic I would expect that the elven navy is very interested in Cerilia, possibly it could be a nursery for their ships to grow in?

    An interesting idea is planetary alignments causing temporary surges is (awn) mebhaighl, if they can affect the tides, why not mebhaighl?

    An opposing idea is perhaps that mebhaighl interferes with spelljamming helms, in which case you would have relatively rare visits to the surface (keeping it isolated). So for example you could rule that helms can be overloaded if near a province where a realm spell was used, given the cost of helms that would keep the jammers very wary of going down to the surface, while leaving the rest of the sphere open for BR-themed specials.

    Given that the Elves use living ships and are more closely tied to mebhaighl you could have them more able to land, or endure mebhaighl storms in space giving them an edge against others and reason to make something special of the sphere.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTall View Post
    An interesting idea is planetary alignments causing temporary surges is (awn) mebhaighl, if they can affect the tides, why not mebhaighl?
    Well, planetary alignments do not affect tides. Only the moon is close enough to do that. (Well, on Earth at least, can't definitively speak for Aebrynis. )

    But it's an interesting idea. Perhaps Aebrynis's moon could affect mebhaighl in some way- waxing and waning levels of power twice per day. In which case, it could also affect a jammer and where / when they land on the surface. So it'd be completely analagous to how the tides affect ships in the ocean. Always easiest to enter/leave a dock at slack water.


    -Fizz

  3. #13
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizz View Post
    Well, planetary alignments do not affect tides. Only the moon is close enough to do that. (Well, on Earth at least, can't definitively speak for Aebrynis. )

    But it's an interesting idea. Perhaps Aebrynis's moon could affect mebhaighl in some way- waxing and waning levels of power twice per day. In which case, it could also affect a jammer and where / when they land on the surface. So it'd be completely analagous to how the tides affect ships in the ocean. Always easiest to enter/leave a dock at slack water.


    -Fizz
    Doh, sorry Fizz, brain spasm from way to far back, should have thought of the inverse square law not old sci-fi movies and suchlike.

    Per Nasa: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news...0/ast04may_1m/
    Venus, the most influential planet, has a whopping max impact of 0.005 cm, let us all say woot woot in unison.

    Hmm, natural mebhaighl tides, sounds interesting, though continuing my onset of senility I can't even remember if Aebrynis has 1 moon or more.

    The worry about Jammer's landing, quite aside from the contamination of cultures issue, is that if Jammers can readily take off and land, they reduce ocean trade route journey times from months to hours, at which point Jammers don't jam, they just hop. Mebhaighl potentially damaging the helms stops the repeat landing issue at least locally...

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTall View Post
    Doh, sorry Fizz, brain spasm from way to far back, should have thought of the inverse square law not old sci-fi movies and suchlike.

    Per Nasa: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news...0/ast04may_1m/
    Venus, the most influential planet, has a whopping max impact of 0.005 cm, let us all say woot woot in unison.
    Heh... no worries. This is a world with magic, so the normal rules of physics don't have to always apply. Fascinating link, i'd not seen that before.

    Hmm, natural mebhaighl tides, sounds interesting, though continuing my onset of senility I can't even remember if Aebrynis has 1 moon or more.
    I don't think Aebrynis has more than one- i've never read anything saying otherwise.

    The worry about Jammer's landing, quite aside from the contamination of cultures issue, is that if Jammers can readily take off and land, they reduce ocean trade route journey times from months to hours, at which point Jammers don't jam, they just hop. Mebhaighl potentially damaging the helms stops the repeat landing issue at least locally...
    Yeah. I don't know the details about how fast Jammers can travel, but maybe there is a way to make short distance travel impractical. Maybe short jaunts take too long to get to orbit and back, or it's simply cost-prohibitive. But no doubt such a technology would have a profound impact.

    -Fizz

  5. #15
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizz View Post
    I don't think Aebrynis has more than one- i've never read anything saying otherwise.
    Which doesn't of course mean very much, the books covers the holdings mainly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizz View Post
    Yeah. I don't know the details about how fast Jammers can travel, but maybe there is a way to make short distance travel impractical. Maybe short jaunts take too long to get to orbit and back, or it's simply cost-prohibitive. But no doubt such a technology would have a profound impact.-Fizz
    Page 51 of the Concordance of Arcane space states that it takes 1 turn to get out of the gravity well of a class A world (less than 10 miles across), 2 turns for B&C (10-1000 miles across), 3 turns for D (1-4k miles across), 4 turns for E (4-10k miles across), 6 turns for F (10k-40k miles across), 12 turns for G (40k-100k miles across), etc.

    Page 52 has a jammer travel 100 million miles a day.

    Page 53 gives the travel time (surface to surface) of earth to Mars as 80 turns to 2.3 days depending on their respective place on their orbits. Nasa eat your heart out...

    So taking off from, say, the south of Aduria with a hold full of spice and landing off the north of Vosgaard to sell them would be a trip of 8 turns, so 1 hour and 20 minutes.

    That sort of speed does horrible things to trade between different parts of the same planet so I usually did a pre-emptive 'try it and the helm may blow' approach, not the most elegant solution but fortunately my players were never into breaking the economic system.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTall View Post
    Which doesn't of course mean very much, the books covers the holdings mainly...
    That's true. I think my impression has also come from Ruornil- he's *the* moon god, not *A* moon god or god of the *moons* (plural). So in canon, it may not be specified anywhere- we just know there's at least one.

    But if you did have multiple moons, they maybe that would work well with your notion of lunar alignments and mebhaighl. Certainly be easy enough to add a couple, and with a bit of hand-waving, i could see that working well.

    Page 53 gives the travel time (surface to surface) of earth to Mars as 80 turns to 2.3 days depending on their respective place on their orbits. Nasa eat your heart out...
    Totally impressive. Surprised Robert Zubrin hasn't caught on... heh.

    So taking off from, say, the south of Aduria with a hold full of spice and landing off the north of Vosgaard to sell them would be a trip of 8 turns, so 1 hour and 20 minutes.
    Impressive. Now, Nasa can do something similar- modern rockets get to low Earth orbit in under 20 minutes, and do a complete orbit in about 90 minutes. But it's not economically viable to do so routinely. So is there a reason or way to make a significant cost associated with a sub-orbital jaunt?

    What powers the Jammers? If it is mebhaighl, then maybe it requires a source, like casting a realm spell perhaps? Just a thought...


    -Fizz

  7. #17
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizz View Post
    Impressive. Now, Nasa can do something similar- modern rockets get to low Earth orbit in under 20 minutes, and do a complete orbit in about 90 minutes. But it's not economically viable to do so routinely. So is there a reason or way to make a significant cost associated with a sub-orbital jaunt?

    What powers the Jammers? If it is mebhaighl, then maybe it requires a source, like casting a realm spell perhaps? Just a thought...

    -Fizz
    Hi Fizz

    I think that you need to get out of the gravity well to get to spell jamming speeds, but I can't see anything canon to stop orbital jaunts, and when you consider the profits to be made on a ship load of spices from half way around the world there needs to be something to stop them.

    Jammers run on generic magic, I would expect mebhaighl to super-charge them, which could be good or bad depending on how you interpret it.

    You could say that too long near mebhaighl could risk overloading a helm for example.

  8. #18
    Member nickgreyden's Avatar
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    You also have to consider that "magic" doesn't work for just anyone, at least not in core Birthright. You have to be blooded else you are just a "magician". It could be another reason they don't show up. It isn't due to overloading, it is due to the fact becoming stranded is a very real possibility if you need a caster because the guy at the helm is dead.

  9. #19
    Senior Member arpig2's Avatar
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    Regarding the question of moons, there is but a single lunar deity, so that implies a single moon.
    Call me Bob.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickgreyden View Post
    You also have to consider that "magic" doesn't work for just anyone, at least not in core Birthright. You have to be blooded else you are just a "magician". It could be another reason they don't show up. It isn't due to overloading, it is due to the fact becoming stranded is a very real possibility if you need a caster because the guy at the helm is dead.
    Good point Nick, if the wizard just loses spell casting you are stranded at best. Priests might have the same issue unless the BR powers support them. I suspect that the unusual cosmology might impact the normal celestian/ptah works anywhere approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arpig
    Regarding the question of moons, there is but a single lunar deity, so that implies a single moon.
    Agreed, although canon don't go into theology in any depth, so if someone wanted to they could have lesser moons for Ruornils saints, heroes, visible only to his most faithful followers, etc (like Nuitiari in Dragonlance).

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