Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19
  1. #1
    Senior Member Delazar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Antwerp
    Posts
    111
    Downloads
    43
    Uploads
    1

    (ADnD 2e) Province Level, Cultures, and Technology Available

    Recently I watched Season One of Vikings (great show, by the way), and it made me wonder a bit about my previous Birthright campaigns, a couple of which were set in the Rjurik Highlands.

    One thing that players try to do as soon as possible, is (rightly so) to raise the level of their provinces to the maximum allowed by terrain type.

    Yet, by looking at the information published in the official supplements, it is rare to see a province at level 7, and especially among the Rjurik and Vos, it is even difficult to see a province 5.

    I was thinking of limiting the max level of a province, not only by terrain type, but also by culture.

    I may make an exception for Capital provinces, or coastal cities, but in general I think that apply this limit would keep each culture more "true" to itself.

    For example:

    Anuireans, Brecht, Khinasi, Elves, Dwarves = Renaissance (max province level 7)
    Rjurik, Orogs = Middle Ages (max province level 5)
    Vos, Goblins, Gnolls = Dark Ages (max province level 3)

    Or maybe, just make it more difficult for some cultures to raise their province to higher levels?

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    3,950
    Downloads
    25
    Uploads
    1
    So what happens if a culture takes over a province? Does the maximum population size and technology level of the province increase or decrease based on who is now in control?

    What if the population is struck by epidemics and the level decreases? Does this mean that there are potentially more source levels in Anuirean provinces than the Rjurik Higlands?

    Sorontar
    Sorontar
    Information Communication ILLUMINATION!!

  3. #3
    Senior Member Delazar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Antwerp
    Posts
    111
    Downloads
    43
    Uploads
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorontar View Post
    So what happens if a culture takes over a province? Does the maximum population size and technology level of the province increase or decrease based on who is now in control?
    It's actually a good question... But what happens when a culture takes over a province from another culture? When the Anuireans invaded Rjurik, did the Rjurik all suddenly become Anuireans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorontar View Post
    What if the population is struck by epidemics and the level decreases? Does this mean that there are potentially more source levels in Anuirean provinces than the Rjurik Higlands?

    Sorontar
    I'm not sure I understand this... Maximum source level is already established by the books. It is only the maximum Province Level that is (would be) limited by culture.

  4. #4
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Chelmsford, Essex, England
    Posts
    2,327
    Downloads
    27
    Uploads
    0
    Maximum province level is, ultimately, limited by the availability of resources (primarily food) and technology (i.e. the ability to get food).

    The Rjurik are further north so possibly beyond the wheat zone limiting them to poorer harvests than the "civilised" three nations and are I suspect supposed to be slightly less technologically advanced than the three civilised types, so putting a population limit on is certainly easy to explain.

    But... trade has a way of balancing things. The City of Anuire for example is L10 despite having no land of its own to harvest (although you could say it trades its technology/culture with Anuire).

    Also the sea provides sustenance and the anuireans are supposed to be poor sailors making it hard to argue that the Rjurik aren't better fisherfolk.

    In practice the maximum population levels along the Taelshore aren't even close to reached though - levelling up to 4-6 is quite feasible under vanilla rules, and that would vastly increase the population.

    I have to admit I prefer the rules that limit growth - RoE had time-based delays via growth points, I've used non-linear scales to increase costs, etc.

    I also prefer, to a degree, the concept that province level is the "organised" level of the population not the actual level, so a L1 province and a L3 province may have the same number of "people", but the L1 province people may not answer to the crown, or may lack transport/communication links, etc meaning that they generate less GB/RP - that makes dealing with the "wow we just quadrupled the population in one game year, people grow up fast around here" issue.

  5. #5
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    3,950
    Downloads
    25
    Uploads
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Delazar View Post
    I'm not sure I understand this... Maximum source level is already established by the books. It is only the maximum Province Level that is (would be) limited by culture.
    I realise that you are talking AD&DII Birthright, but the approach taken for the BRCS 3ed is that the maximum source level (source potential) for a province is related to the maximum province level. If you have too much industry and population, you have less source. By changing the province level of a region according to culture, you may also be changing the source potential of the province.

    To quote from the BRCS:
    Each terrain type has a specific magic potential. The sum of a province's level and the level of sources within it cannot normally exceed the magic potential rating of the terrain (see Table 7-1: Magic potential by terrain). The difference between a province's magic potential and its province level is its maximum source level .
    ... If a province's level increases, its maximum source level immediately decreases in response, possibly causing the loss of one or more regent mage's source holdings.
    Sorontar
    Sorontar
    Information Communication ILLUMINATION!!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Delazar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Antwerp
    Posts
    111
    Downloads
    43
    Uploads
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorontar View Post
    I realise that you are talking AD&DII Birthright, but the approach taken for the BRCS 3ed is that the maximum source level (source potential) for a province is related to the maximum province level. If you have too much industry and population, you have less source. By changing the province level of a region according to culture, you may also be changing the source potential of the province.

    Sorontar
    Isn't this the same way it works in AD&D2e? In any case, I would be limiting the level that can be reached, not the level of the province itself.

    Example:

    A Province 0/7
    Vos could raise this province to a maximum of 3/4
    Rjurik could raise this province to a maximum of 5/2
    Anuirean could raise this province to a maximum of 7/0

    PS: "level" comes up way too often in the terminology, it may be confusing sometimes...

  7. #7
    Senior Member Delazar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Antwerp
    Posts
    111
    Downloads
    43
    Uploads
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTall View Post
    I have to admit I prefer the rules that limit growth - RoE had time-based delays via growth points, I've used non-linear scales to increase costs, etc.
    Where can I find this RoE? I'd be interested to read how they tackled the matter.

  8. #8
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Chelmsford, Essex, England
    Posts
    2,327
    Downloads
    27
    Uploads
    0
    http://www.twilightpeaks.net

    http://www.twilightpeaks.net/forum/

    There should be a downloads section with various iterations of Bjorn's ruleset.

    If you have trouble with the site for some reason and pm me your email address I can email you the ruleset I have.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    125
    Downloads
    6
    Uploads
    0
    Even a 10 level province isn't so much populated. If city of Anuire is level 10, then the province of Anuire that is a lot larger could be level 15 with the combo land and technology, but max level is 10 for balance reasons. 90% of Cerilia provinces are big enough to be 10 level with the exception of bad dwelling terrain like mountains.
    But the second suggestion to make harder for some cultures to level up provinces seems good.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Delazar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Antwerp
    Posts
    111
    Downloads
    43
    Uploads
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTall View Post
    http://www.twilightpeaks.net

    http://www.twilightpeaks.net/forum/

    There should be a downloads section with various iterations of Bjorn's ruleset.

    If you have trouble with the site for some reason and pm me your email address I can email you the ruleset I have.
    I had a look at the site, but info seems to be a bit all over the place... it probably makes sense for those that played in that game...

    so I'd like to receive the ruleset by mail, PM is coming!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Province level
    By Rey in forum Main
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-19-2008, 09:27 AM
  2. Province Level & Population
    By Raesene Andu in forum BRCS 3.0/3.5 Edition
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-16-2005, 09:49 PM
  3. Province level vs population
    By Birthright-L in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-06-2002, 07:09 PM
  4. Sv: Province level vs population
    By Green Knight in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-04-2002, 09:19 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.