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  1. #1
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    Need Help with Running my Kingdom of Medoere

    Hi Everyone,

    I came here looking for some help and advice. I'm currently playing in a birthright campaign with a few others. I am playing Suris Enlien, the regent of Medoere. I like what the GM has done with his campaign thus far, but I am running into some problems, actually, I've have problems since the beginning of the campaign. For those in the 'know', you know that Medoere used to be a part of Diemed only a few years back (8 years according to the source books), and Heirl Diem wants to bring Medoere and Endier back into this kingdom.

    So the GM has Heirl Diem continually create law holdings in my kingdom to contest my rulership, rather then outrightly declare war. My kingdom generates a whole 4 gold bars (after expenses and upkeep) and 28 regency for my character. I am continually having to spend my gold and regency to contest his actions and I am actually at the point now where I am falling behind. At this point I am really, really, really frustrated with playing this kingdom because I don't see my character able to keep or maintain it. I've asked Roesone kingdom for help, but that might only delay at best. I have 3 knights, 3 infantry and 3 archer units. But those 9 units are no way near a match for what Diemed has at its disposal, plus he has a large treasury that he can muster new units from. Endier and Illien can't help, certainly not the Spider, Arenwe isn't interested in war and doesn't want any involvement... so I am at a loss.

    I've already expressed my frustrations to the GM. What do I do? I'm looking for help or advice on how to deal with this scenario.

    First, how do I deal with Heirl Diem for the moment? (repel his actions)
    Second, how could I gain an advantage over him and possibly take over Diemed? (this is a lofty goal, but one I have to consider to remove him from the game as he will always be a thorn in my side)

  2. #2
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Well, flipping the question - have you considered allying with Diemed instead? The core issue with Diemed was the religious persecution, not the fact that the Enlien family were vassals (which is normal for most nobles in Anuire to one degree or another).

    So a counter-offer based on diplomacy offering some measure of fealty / respect in exchange for protection from OIT, mutual defense (i.e. vs Spider / Ghoere) is one approach that he'd have to at least consider (giving you a breathing space if nothing else).

    It's worth remembering that Medoere isn't one of the "power" realms, so a "blunt force and trauma" approach to diplomacy is likely to be less effective than a more subtle path.

    From Diemed's view "beating" you in contests is going to be a pyrrhic victory at best (particularly when you respond by just investing yourself) - only a foolish noble is willingly enemy to the local faith and Medoere is noted as very fervent and utterly opposed to the OIT to the point of recent rebellion. Diemed has already changed tactics to a degree after the humiliation of the Moonstrike, why not show him that the open hand is more likely to regain him his dignity than the closed fist?

    Given the huge prestige boost Diemed would get from even a nominal fealty from Medoere any vassalage terms should be fairly good, particularly as even a low RP/GB vassalage deal would likely be more profitable for Diemed than the current RP-draining quagmire that leaves him vulnerable to Avan's influence and generally drains his treasury - he has more wealth than Medoere true, but he has more enemies and needs too, if he spends too much, for too long, he'll find his enemies cutting his realm apart - well - more than it's been reduced already.

    Alternatively, if you simply can't deal with the man - what about his rivals - Avan, or his heir?

    In practice whatever ally you obtain will want something in exchange, the question is what the short/medium/long term costs will be, and what opportunities you will obtain from your alliance - Diemed is no different from Avan, Ghoere, the OIT or any other potential partner history aside - and whether you use the history as a shield or sword is up to you.

  3. #3
    Perhaps you can give Baron Diem something else to occupy his attention? Perhaps strike a bargain with one of the Guilders who has holdings in Diemed? In one of my campaigns, the Book of Laws was stolen from the cathedral in Aerele. No one ever found out who took it but it ended up in Suris' hands. It would make a powerful bargaining chip if you were to strike an alliance with a rival of Diemed's Orthodox Imperial Temple.. Perhaps the WIT, who is allied with Avan (who has law holdings in Diemed)?

    Or maybe strike a bargain with the Guilder Kalien? Get him to stir up some mischief, make him your official State Guilder (make giving up the law holding in Caerwil a part of the deal while you''re at it, if you can).

    Alternately, your court wizard has holdings in Diemed. She is in a position to cause strife in Diemed, making your life easier (in the short run) while she's at it.

    Have fun



    Quote Originally Posted by ducheca View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    I came here looking for some help and advice. I'm currently playing in a birthright campaign with a few others. I am playing Suris Enlien, the regent of Medoere. I like what the GM has done with his campaign thus far, but I am running into some problems, actually, I've have problems since the beginning of the campaign. For those in the 'know', you know that Medoere used to be a part of Diemed only a few years back (8 years according to the source books), and Heirl Diem wants to bring Medoere and Endier back into this kingdom.

    So the GM has Heirl Diem continually create law holdings in my kingdom to contest my rulership, rather then outrightly declare war. My kingdom generates a whole 4 gold bars (after expenses and upkeep) and 28 regency for my character. I am continually having to spend my gold and regency to contest his actions and I am actually at the point now where I am falling behind. At this point I am really, really, really frustrated with playing this kingdom because I don't see my character able to keep or maintain it. I've asked Roesone kingdom for help, but that might only delay at best. I have 3 knights, 3 infantry and 3 archer units. But those 9 units are no way near a match for what Diemed has at its disposal, plus he has a large treasury that he can muster new units from. Endier and Illien can't help, certainly not the Spider, Arenwe isn't interested in war and doesn't want any involvement... so I am at a loss.

    I've already expressed my frustrations to the GM. What do I do? I'm looking for help or advice on how to deal with this scenario.

    First, how do I deal with Heirl Diem for the moment? (repel his actions)
    Second, how could I gain an advantage over him and possibly take over Diemed? (this is a lofty goal, but one I have to consider to remove him from the game as he will always be a thorn in my side)

  4. #4
    I had a campaign where someone was the regent of Roesone, and they had similar problems, only with Ghoere and not Diemed, though because Roesone is larger they could somewhat compete in expensive contests (at least to make it not worth Ghoere's effort).

    Medoere is a small country and so can't win in a traditional engagement with a country like Diemed. Diemed gets more RP, GB, and has more resources than you, and will ultimately win any numbers based game. You have to either make it not worth Diem's time by causing backlash against him for contesting, as the others mentioned, or buddy up with someone else powerful.

    Guilder Kalien might be a good option, since I believe he has guild holdings in that area. Avan is the other logical choice. Avan is consumed by pursuit of the Iron Throne and while Diem is not a frontrunner for it, he is still in the race and Avan could only gain at Diemed's expense.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Jaleela's Avatar
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    In addition to your Realm wizard who might hold sources in Diemed, Suris Enlien is a cleric capable of casting realm spells. What realm spells are open to you? Do you possess any temple holdings in Diemed? If so, think about how you might be able to leverage those to mabye agitate against Diemed.

    What actions are open to you? Agitate, Interdict, etc.

    It's that, diplomacy, or allying with one of Heirl's enemies. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". Or "gasp" depending on your alignment...there are more nefarious options...but the populace of Diemed would not appreciate someone bumping off their annointed ruler.

    Always think of the "Laws of unintended consequences".

    Treating or allying with a known awnsheglian will not serve your purpose.
    d'estre bons et leaulx amis et vrais ensemble et de servir l'un 'autre envers et contre tous

  6. #6
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    There's no way you can stand up to Diemed on your own, and probably not even with Roesone behind you. So you absolutely need to think asymetrically about this, and to find political solutions rather than military one ("War is merely the continuation of politics by other means.").

    I think your best course of action would be to try to divert Diemed's attention to more pressing matters and away from you. Diemed is a much larger realm than Medoere, but that also means that the Duke has many more interests that he needs to protect, so there are many ways to do that:

    • A Subversion spell could induce a part of his military to launch a raid into the Spiderfell, and perhaps provoke a retaliatory invasion by the Spider.
    • Diemed has a couple of law holdings in the Imperial City that are very valuable, but also quite vulnerable to threats (e.g. riots, legal challenges, contests by other regents).
    • Try to ally with the pirates of the Straits of Aerele and have them attack Diemed's shipping or even raid their coasts.
    • Creating a full rebellion in as ordered a realm as Diemed would be hard, but any realm has some internal conflicts from dissatisfied nobles, disenfranchised commoners, merchants with unpaid bills, etc. Try to find some of those and stir up trouble.
    • Manufacture a conflict between Diemed and Avanil. For instance, hire some mercenaries for a month, dress them in Diemed's liveries, and land them from the Maesil River in the province Anuire to plunder a couple of manors. Then do the same thing Avanil's liveries and in Moere: Instant conflict on Diemed's border opposite from you.


    Also, you say that Diem wants to reconquer both Medoere and Endier. That makes an alliance between your two realms an obvious advantage (especially if you have evidence of that ambition), and having Guilder Kalien on your side makes doing the sneaky stuff above much easier.

    Finally, I would actually suggest that you consider reducing your army in size somewhat. As you mention, Diemed can always outmuster you anyway, and having too large an army (especially three units of knights) drains your treasury of funds that could be spent better and more strategically elsewhere.

  7. #7
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    Wow thank you for all the suggestions. I wanted to give you a better run-down of the actions so far. So Reosone is an ally of mine, so is Illien. Together the three of us have forged a protection pact. Well Baron Gavin Tael of Ghoere decided he'd try and take over Reosone, so he mustered up some more troops and invaded. Together we pulled our resources and not only repelled him, but also managed to kill the sword mage in one of our conflicts. The next season he kept his invasion going, and this time the GM decided Gavin would be on the battlefield leading his army. We by sheer luck of the dice managed to win the battle versus him and killed him in action. So no more Gavin Tael, no more Sword Mage. A huge blow to Ghoere. His daughter is now the regent and no court wizard. With such a strong showing after having defeated Ghoere, we sent a letter to Heirl Diem stating that he was to stop creating and contesting my law holdings or suffer the consequences of the mutual pact of the three countries. So far that seems to have worked. Maybe a permanent solution, but who knows. As for Endier, I can't ally with him because I kicked him out of my country, so he no longer has law or guild holdings. That was the first thing I did when I took over.

    All of your ideas are great. So I made a quick list of the suggestions and added one of my own at the end and wanted to get your opinion.

    Vassalage - Given the huge prestige boost Diemed would get from even a nominal fealty from Medoere any vassalage terms should be fairly good, particularly as even a low RP/GB vassalage deal would likely be more profitable for Diemed than the current RP-draining quagmire that leaves him vulnerable to Avan's influence and generally drains his treasury - he has more wealth than Medoere true, but he has more enemies and needs too, if he spends too much, for too long, he'll find his enemies cutting his realm apart - well - more than it's been reduced already.

    Book of Laws - Steal the Book of Laws the cathedral in Aerele. It would make a powerful bargaining chip if I was to strike an alliance with a rival of Diemed's Orthodox Imperial Temple.. Perhaps the WIT (Western Imperial Temple), who is allied with Darien Avan. Perhaps sell it for massive amounts of gold.

    Diplomacy - Contact Prince Avan, and discuss alliance versus Diemed. Heirl Diem has a couple of law holdings in the Imperial City that are very valuable, but also quite vulnerable to threats (e.g. riots, legal challenges, contests by other regents).

    Rebellion - Creating a full rebellion in Diemed. As ordered a realm as Diemed is, every realm has some internal conflicts from dissatisfied nobles, disenfranchised commoners, merchants with unpaid bills, etc. Try to find some of those and stir up trouble.

    Subtergufe - Manufacture a conflict between Diemed and Avanil. For instance, hire some mercenaries for a month, dress them in Diemed's liveries, and land them from the Maesil River in the province Anuire to plunder a couple of manors. Then do the same thing Avanil's liveries and in Moere: Instant conflict on Diemed's border opposite from you.

    Pirates - Try to ally with the pirates of the Straits of Aerele and have them attack Diemed's shipping or even raid their coasts.

    Hermedhie - Alternately, my court wizard has holdings in Diemed. She is in a position to cause strife in Diemed, making my life easier (in the short run) while she's at it. A Subversion spell could induce a part of his military to launch a raid into the Spiderfell, and perhaps provoke a retaliatory invasion by the Spider.


    ---> Now I did come up with one myself. I wanted to get people's input on it.

    Marriage - Arrange to wed Dorien Avan (Darien's oldest son and heir) will solidifiy relations and forge an alliance with Avanil. Together defeat Diemed with the possible creation of new kingdom with Medoere, Diemed, Endier and Avanil together. (19 Provinces in total) His bid for the Iron Throne could not be denied afterwards. After his death the throne would be passed down to his eldest son (Dorien, my husband). He would control the law, I could control the temple holdings. If we were to add Tuornen that would add 8 more provinces to the total.

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