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  1. #1
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    Breeding bloodline slaves for harvest

    I have gone over a lot of old posts in the archives but I havent seen anything that would suggest its not possible to breed blooded slaves in order to Harvest their blood lines.

    Sure you'd have to be particularly evil, but then many of the Awnsheg are supposed to be particularly evil.

    AS far as i can see there is nothing physically stopping some evil long lived being like the gorgon breeding blooded slaves and then killing them ?
    (oops sorry about spelling)
    Last edited by Thelandrin; 09-14-2013 at 07:22 PM. Reason: Correcting title
    Satanta

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    Senior Member cccpxepoj's Avatar
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    i woud say inquisition and some good alighned adventuring parties can tray to stop you, plus things like that always makes your GM angry and nervous.

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    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    It's come up quite a lot, including somewhat silly examples like a mage with a bloodline polymorphing into something quick-breeding and fathering a race of blooded animals to harvest.

    If it comes up any number of reasons can justify a rule banning it, common points I recall:

    1. Bloodlines being deific in nature flee the slaves (bloodline is lost for losing land, how badly does a scion get hit for being a breeding slave?)

    2. The bloodlines don't awaken in a slave so the bloodline remains dormant (and unsteal-able) until the proto-scion escapes or otherwise achieves greatness of some sort (twist on the normal dormant until adult rule)

    3. You can only steal a bloodline once, so once you've killed one scion in a bloodline you gain nothing from killing their child. (A house rule based on bloodlines as quasi-independent of the host they are currently in)

    4. Rapid corruption of the harvester into an awnsheghlien - given its poor diet possibly one overcome by mindlessness. (Enforcement of existing rules by an annoyed DM)

    5. The practical difficulties, Iron Throne aside the Gorgon's going to struggle to father a child for physical reasons, and accidental petrification/death gaze issues for example. (The ever-dangerous application of common sense and genetics to a game)

    6. For the non-awnies, social issues. The churches may tolerate some sort of acceptable dueling protocols, (particularly the Vos) but bloodlines are sacred - not commodities. (The gods oppose it judgement)

    7. Critical bloodline amortisation, the slave has no holdings, no heroism, etc to gain RP or boost bloodline, inheritance is clearly an issue, so the bloodline rapidly dwindles over the generations and is destroyed. (Twist on existing rule)

    Etc.

    That said, Goblins are noted as having many scions due to, in part, their breeding, so it works to some degree - indeed the Gorgon does harvest bloodlines in his generational rivings, he just has to build bloodlines up to the point that they provide him a boost with careful encouragement of certain lines.

    It all depends on how silly things get and whether the ploy is damaging the game

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    The campaign we are playing , the players are goblins (for something different), they are in Thurazor and have implemented gladiator pits.

    the pits are to distract some of the more violent members of society, they contain people sentenced there for crimes and people competing for the honor and rich's.

    The combatants lead fairly lavish lives, its not always to the death and they normally have a few goblin "wives" each.

    The problem is the combatants with bloodlines are getting a lot more wives (some blooded themselves) and better training and equipment. They are breeding blooded offspring and sometimes fix matches in order to increase a certain bloodline.

    The also do things like put prisoners of war with blood lines in there at offer them freedom if they survive 50 combats (rarely do) and allow loyal goblins to try kill them for their bloodlines.

    Another problem is that they are building up non Azari bloodlines (been having problems with minor awshegs due to prevalence of Azari amongst goblins), by recruiting goblins who hold these lines in various roles and rewarding them with numerous wives. Again some blooded.

    I cant see anything which would stop this from being allowed its a type of breading program but doesn't really undermine any of the morals of the goblin society.
    Satanta

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    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satanta View Post
    I cant see anything which would stop this from being allowed its a type of breading program but doesn't really undermine any of the morals of the goblin society.
    I suspect that the goblin leaders who are seeing an army of replacements being bred and trained as killers might disagree, anyone of those babes could be the next king - or puppet of another would-be ruler

    I note that infant mortality is likely to be poor given the time-frame, add in the poverty of the gladiators and dreg-status of the forced "wives" mortality could be terrible - particularly if the "wives" may well resort to infanticide to avoid the burden of raising a child on their own.

    Then of course there is the issue of bloodline corruption and awnsheghlien madness of those in the pits, the brutal violent lives of the gladiators are unlikely to nurture a pleasant bloodline and ancient traces of Azrai's heritage could easily start rising fed by the bloodtheft and general chaos/violence.

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    Well from our standpoint the lives of these people are brutal.
    But goblin society is more brutal and harsh( as was medieval society) .

    None of the "wives" are forced, marriages in the past often were not made for love but as a suitable match. The conditions the gladiators and their kin live in are ( like in ancient Rome) better than most of their contemporary's .

    The arenas are actually run in a fairly lawful way and the players have also used them as a way to resolve disputes in Goblin society, once both party agree. If its not a fight to the death and one party is killed a pre agreed blood price must then be paid to the aggrieved s side.

    in this Campaign the old Goblin king is trying to encourage a larger pool of suitable replacements , they have even started training and educating some of the offspring to serve in the government.

    I have included problems with awshegs and uprisings etc with general slaves,but the current system has evolved to match these problems.

    I cant think of any legitimate reason why there cant be a few hundred more blooded members of the society in a few generations ?
    Satanta

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    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Can you tell us how you determine bloodline scores? In the fourth generation, what blood score would a child have? How many blooded peers would they have to kill to increase their blood score? How many peers would be required to sustain this for four generations?

    As I see it, logistics would make it hard, and there is always the unknown. As the Ehrsheghlien have shown, sometimes exceptional things happen and you don't quite get the bloodlines you expect when you kill awnsheghlien. Not all gladatorial deaths will be suitable bloodkills/usurption either.

    Sorontar

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    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    You could certainly increase the overall number of scions, but with the bloodline dropping by half each generation (no inheritance to pass down) you'd get bloodlines reducing to tainted and then going dormant out fairly quickly as you moved away from the primary scions.

    Hmm, I suspect that the goblin king is a PC given the sponsorship of the wives and deliberate breeding program (I'd assumed that it was an accidental by-product of setting up the pits). I'd expect any NPC goblin king to be more worried about themselves, than their realm - and want any replacement to be from their own bloodline rather than a stranger's.

    How is the political situation going given that these new scions are all from a few families and will inevitably undermine existing scion families, threaten neighbouring realms as they seek to carve out a path to glory, etc?

    What attention have you played from bloodline hunters? Minor awnies may flock to the realm if word of large numbers of scions, most without significant families to offer protection (the crowns will be spread thin I suspect) reach them, and of course to someone divested it would be equally irresistible.

    Are you making all the offspring scions? The 2e system simply used the mean of the parents for the new bloodline, but there's no reason not to make it more variable whether the bloodline is inherited, if so which, what strength, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorontar View Post
    Can you tell us how you determine bloodline scores? In the fourth generation, what blood score would a child have? How many blooded peers would they have to kill to increase their blood score? How many peers would be required to sustain this for four generations?

    As I see it, logistics would make it hard, and there is always the unknown. As the Ehrsheghlien have shown, sometimes exceptional things happen and you don't quite get the bloodlines you expect when you kill awnsheghlien. Not all gladatorial deaths will be suitable bloodkills/usurption either.

    Sorontar
    Sorry for the slow reply, was computer less for a while .

    I determined bloodline scores on a average of the two parents, as i thought the rules suggest?

    I also had Goblin society as polygamous as Females are very lowly ranked, More powerful Goblins get a bigger share of everything (women another status symbol), and there is a gender imbalance due to constant conflict and the males dying more often.

    Mostly the bloodlines are weak.
    For example the King An Minor 34 has 6 wives.
    4 non blooded, all children will be An 17 or less?
    1 blooded az tainted 13, children will generally be An 23
    1 blooded An tainted 10, children will generally be An 22 ?

    Then there are the 5 other players- who are minor nobles and their wives, plus off spring.
    At the moment they alone have with the king 27 spouses, and 136 off spring.

    Like noble family's everywhere they are having arranged marriages etc.

    Then some of the gladiators and other nobles and warriors have bloodlines of generally minor or tainted. Again arranged marriages are organized , particularly ones between no Azari bloodlines, in order to stop the frequent number of Minor Awsheg they have had crop up.
    Satanta

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