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11-26-2005, 06:01 PM #1
House rules regarding rule province
Many PBEMs seem to think the rule province is "unrealistic" as it implies that in one season,you get several dozen thousands of people to appear.IIRC the interpretation is the people are there,but you are bringing them under your control.
The problem is pretty much all of these house rules turn the rule province action into something that no one ever uses,because the incentive to do has effectively dissapeared.It also means that those players who start up with low level provinces are fucked,while those who start with higher level provinces have a incredible advantage.High level province with low holdings are much more preferably to low level provicnes with high holdings.....as it is still possible to raise holding levels but not province levels.
You want to make it take longer to rule a province?Harder?Very simple.....increase the incentive to do so.
As amazingly as it sounds this crucial part of a game balance formalue has to exist.If you make something much harder but dont touch the rewards,no one is going to do it.
No one is going to kill the gorgon if doing so just gives you 1 xp.No bloodline score or strength modification.No RP.No uber loot,no stash of tighmaevril weapons.No fame,no ingame events like the chamberlain crowning you the next emperor.Nothing,but one lousy experience point.
Do you really think players will aspire to kill the gorgon,a monster at 900+ hp and all those special rules,if doing so nets them a grand total of 1 xp?Of course not.
The same logic applies here.If you want to make ruling provinces take years ingame to achieve........then by god you have to make province levels incredibly important,not just "oh look +1 GB/RP per level!!!50 years to recoup investment!!!!!!"
It just pains me to see DMs start up PBEMs and then go "but rule province in BRCS isnt realistic!!!!!now its uber hard!!!!" and just totally forget that by making it uber hard with no other modifications they just made it useless,and hanged a large "DO NOT USE THIS ACTION OR YOU GET FUCKED OVER ROYALLY" sign on it.
Im amazed they didnt go even further and nerf the hell out of everything else.
"omgz bless land +1 province level?!?!BS nothing in real life can do that!!!!now it taks 100 GBs and a DDC of 100+100xprovince level!!!!!!"
11-26-2005, 06:27 PM #2
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- Virginia Beach, Virginia
11-26-2005, 08:16 PM #3
House rules regarding rule province
Oddly enough, I prefer not to see too much change in province levels over
the course of a few years.
Has to do with suspension of disbelief for me.
11-27-2005, 06:16 AM #4
I would't mind the standard "one Rule Province attempt per season" if there were more easily-occuring ways for provinces to lose levels as well. here are a few ideas as to how to do that:
Allow for more bad weather, famine, disease, pestilence as random events significant enough to lower a province's level by one (permanently).
Have the "Contest Province" domain action work similarly to Contest Holding in the BRCS (success destroys one level of the province, may only attempt once per season).
Have a "Raid Province" domain action (something I've proposed before): basically quick and dirty pilaging that doesn't require a full month of prior occupation, but is less lucrative than than taking two months to occupy and thouroughly loot a province.
Integrating all 3 of these would be best of all, as it could provide multiple ways for a DM...er, I mean "enemy regents and ill fortune," to counter a realm's rapid growth.
It does, of course add a bit of extra complexity and book-keeping to the domain campaign, but it also allows it to remain much more dynamic and therefore exciting than a slow and stagnant "provinces rarely change" style of play. A certain level of unpredictability, and players' unease of their PCs losing what they've built, are always good for keeping things on the edge. And that's a game that keeps 'em coming back.
11-27-2005, 09:31 AM #5
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
The easiest way to stop your players raising provinces levels to many times is to give them plenty to do. My campaign has been running for a few weeks (real time) and 2 Years (game time), we are concentraiting on domains not advetures, and my player rules Medoere, his intial plan was to have Medoeres 3 provinces up to lvl 5 in a short space of time. Well he has only managed to get Caerwil to lvl 3 and ive chucked loads of stuff at him, holy wars, Reavers, Goblins, Mercenaries.....
Keep them busy and they wont have time or actions to raise province levels.
11-27-2005, 09:55 AM #6
Damn,your campaign moves fsat......equavelent to PBEMs would be nearly 1 year IRL for 2 years ingame.If only PBEMs could achieve this kind of fast-paced action........
Its very simple.You want to make raising province levels hard?Nearly impossible?Increase the benefits.I said this numerous times in the original post.You cant have both a balanced game and a useless action,sorry.
If you dont want players to increase province levels just honestly flat out say : i am not allowing this action to be taken in my game.Simple isnt it?Why bother screwing around with making it have a DDC of 100 or some other nonsense?
If you want to make raising one province level take years ingame you need to vastly increase the effect province levels have on RP/GB collection,maybe some other effects as well.This of course leads to a further gap between those lucky enough to start with high level provinces instead of lower level provinces,which further leads to more imbalances and certain domains being much more powerful than intended,which basically means a serious balancing problem all around.
You dont just say "okay i make this harder to do" and VOILA everything works out all peachy,game balancing is never as easy as that.Some realms were deliberately designed as weak,but with the potential to grow stronger and hold their own.....the sword rust tribes in vosgaard was designed for this,someone playing it would need to rule the provinces to a higher level before seriously considering a war of conquest.Imagine in a campaign setting where the rule province action is either removed totally or has serious limitations placed on it.....so serious that one might as well not use it at all.....the sword rust tribes will never,ever become a serious power capable of swooping down from the mountains and laying waste to everything,they will forever remain a thorn in the side,occasionally raiding,but nothing else.The player playing it gets pissed because he sees himself as nothing but the "oh hey i will just annoy velonye again with a raid,since i have no chance winning a full out war with multiple realms even if the campaign lasted for 10 years IRL" guy.
But if you want to screw with the action and making it uber hard you have to take it upon yourself to fix everything that arises from it.An example would be the RTS game based on WH40K.You cant just say "oh hey i will make space marines uber,because according to the background they are supposed to be,and one squad beats full pop cap of orks because thats what happens in the fluff", without getting everyone screaming "FUCK THE FLUFF!FIX THE BALANCE!".
Of course you are the DM,you have final say,you can have gorgon marry the chamberlain in your campaign,blah blah blah,but IMHO game balance has to be maintained for true gameplay fun.
I can tell you that one thing game company balancing teams do not want to hear is "but its not realistic!" arguments,for a good reason.
11-27-2005, 10:56 AM #7
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
i like the option of raising province level, yes if abused it can lead to lots of lvl 10 provinces, but if done right it can show that the country is growing economically, comercially and socially (Phew big words from me). the extra people can come from within the countries borders or from without. Emigration happens IRL so why not in game.
I'm sorry but i think if it aint broke why fix it.
11-27-2005, 12:41 PM #8
Okay after checking the rules i want to confirm something.Under BRCS is gold allowed to modify the rule province roll or not?It specifies no RP only.
If not,then well its a LOT harder than i thought it was.
Ruling a level 4 to 5 would take 4 turns of ruling(on average) to suceed,costing 20 GB in the process.
If someone in a PBEM can mass rule provinces to level 10 constantly with those kind of rules something is not right.It would take years IRL to get a level 10 province from a level 5 province.
11-27-2005, 07:13 PM #9
This argument about Gorgon and 1 XP is ridiculous.
If someone play Brt to cash XP for such "monsters" let him go away and play some computer game like Quake.
Gorgon is toughtest enemy of all setting (maybe all settings) so killing him is an end of campaign. Killing him is to become mightiest creature in the world with no challenge and no need for further XP.
And about province levels.
I think it cannot be tied so closely to population. No suspension of disbelieve is no solution, there is a place to make absolutely new nice-to-play and reliable rules.
11-28-2005, 02:02 AM #10
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