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  1. #21
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    Wondrous structures in the BRCS.

    At 11:29 AM 11/4/2005 +0100, Manty wrote:

    >With the upkeep cost say 1 lvl of Law how does it work?
    >
    >is it this: Border Guards require a Law 3 and have an upkeep of Law 1.
    >after successful creating of the specialty holding, does the law lvl drop
    >to Law (Border Guards) 2 or does it stay at Law 3 (border Guards) nut have
    >the effect of a lvl 2 law?

    Funny, I was just looking through the archives at some of that specialty
    holding stuff yesterday....

    Irdeggman is correct about how that works. The Rule action that creates
    the specialty replaces the level of the holding that it would have gained
    normally. So if you rule a Law(3) to add the Border Guards specialty to
    the holding it becomes a Law(3,Border Guards) and that holding otherwise
    remains a Law(3) for all the standard uses of a Law holding.

    IIRC, the idea was originally presented as a "prestige class for holdings"
    and thinking about it in those terms really helps understand how it
    works. "Specialty holding" kind of trips off the tongue a bit more easily
    than does "prestige holding" and helps differentiate the concept from other
    aspects of a game that can sometimes a vocabulationistinarative muddle.

    I think the best objection to the idea of specialty holdings was that it
    increases the amount of record keeping and does make play a little slower
    in that one must keep in mind all of the specialty effects during play. It
    does add more text to a reference work. From what I can tell, however,
    those things are pretty much true of monuments too, and the method for
    accounting for the existence of a monument doesn`t fit right into the
    record keeping system for the domain itself as neatly. When it boils right
    down to it if one can handle one then the other isn`t any more difficult to
    manage, and it adds a nice parallel construction to the domain level of
    play complementing the D20 character class system. On the whole, I think
    there`s room for both ideas in the domain level, and some effects should be
    portrayed by a specialty holding game mechanic while a monument game
    mechanic handles others in the same way that at the character level one
    might want to differentiate between prestige classes and templates.

    There was a very strenuous objection that the concept would interfere with
    role-playing and/or was the result of little more than a passion for rules,
    but the nature of the argument never really seemed to coalesce into
    anything concrete that I could discern. Be forewarned, however, that some
    folks have seen nothing but doom and despair in the concept. Muahaha!

    I think I may have to revisit those rules for a bit. I really liked the
    idea and (to be honest) I think it could use a rewrite, some graphics and a
    PDF document....

    Gary

  2. #22
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    Wondrous structures in the BRCS.

    Don`t worry, Gary, I`m on it. Actually, the next version will be a little
    more streamlined and will do away with some of the "upkeep" questions.
    Yes, Irdegman was correct in his interpretation. I`m sorry I didn`t reply
    sooner. An upkeep 1 effectively means you have to use a Rule action once to
    get the specialization. An upkeep of 2 means you have to use a rule action
    twice. Specialization is the benefit of these rule actions; it does not go
    up in level but gains new abilities (and sometimes loses old ones). Upkeep
    was perhaps the wrong word; it will be corrected in the re-write.
    And Gary, yes, I have given some thoughts as to incorporating some kind of
    point-based "monumont" construction rules into the game to be played in the
    game along with specialty holdings. I think there`s a definite need for both
    these systems. The specialty holdings are a useful way of providing
    customization to players, while the monumont rules are better equipped to
    handle player innovations. The specialty holdings expand the domain level of
    play, while monumont rules take the game to the next level...
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  3. #23
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    Wondrous structures in the BRCS.

    If you intend to use specialty holdings in your campaign at all, feel free
    to drop the extra GOLD and RP costs for these specializations, as they will
    not be in the next version. Only one or more RULE actions are needed to
    specialize.
    -Lord Rahvin
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  4. #24
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    Wondrous structures in the BRCS.

    At 12:13 PM 11/7/2005 -0800, you wrote:

    >Don`t worry, Gary, I`m on it. Actually, the next version will be a little
    >more streamlined and will do away with some of the "upkeep" questions.
    >Yes, Irdegman was correct in his interpretation. I`m sorry I didn`t reply
    >sooner. An upkeep 1 effectively means you have to use a Rule action once to
    >get the specialization. An upkeep of 2 means you have to use a rule action
    >twice. Specialization is the benefit of these rule actions; it does not go
    >up in level but gains new abilities (and sometimes loses old ones). Upkeep
    >was perhaps the wrong word; it will be corrected in the re-write.

    One of the things that I think should change is the two levels of "upkeep"
    (or whatever term winds up getting used) should probably be done away with
    unless the specialty is actually the second of two progressive
    specializations. That is, if one dedicated a level to "Secret Police" and
    that cost 1 level of "upkeep" and then specialized that holding again to
    turn it into something with an additional effect that had "Secret Police"
    as a prerequisite called, for instance, "Intelligence Agency" then that
    second level of specialization should account for two levels of a
    holding. Rather than requiring two Rule actions that wind up in creating a
    "two level" specialty the system should have steps.

    >The specialty holdings expand the domain level of play, while monumont
    >rules take the game to the next level...

    I have to remember they`re called "wondrous structures" now....

    Gary

  5. #25
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    Wondrous structures in the BRCS.

    > One of the things that I think should change is the two levels of "upkeep"
    > (or whatever term winds up getting used) should probably be done away with
    > unless the specialty is actually the second of two progressive
    > specializations. That is, if one dedicated a level to "Secret Police" and
    > that cost 1 level of "upkeep" and then specialized that holding again to
    > turn it into something with an additional effect that had "Secret Police"
    > as a prerequisite called, for instance, "Intelligence Agency" then that
    > second level of specialization should account for two levels of a
    > holding. Rather than requiring two Rule actions that wind up in creating a
    > "two level" specialty the system should have steps.

    Yep. Right there with you.
    Getting rid of the whole upkeep thing. Ditto with extra costs. All the
    numbers will be adjusted appropriately. Just use an action, bam, it`s
    specialized now. You don`t need to pay extra, but you need a certain minimum
    amount of domain power to specialize some holdings.
    A "monumont," under my system, is a grand structure built over time that
    should usually represent a unique enterprise of some kind. It takes many
    turns to build, a variable cost, and introduces some new random events that
    come into play once built. It also adds to domain power and collects regency
    (in propertion to the increased domain power). It can also be occupied and
    fortified like a holding and has a level, though it has no maximum level.
    Its principle function will vary depending on the monumont type, but it will
    usually add a modifier to a certain domain actions. There will be several
    monumont archetypes as well as a point-based monumont construction system to
    determine cost and build times for player-inspired monumonts.

    >The specialty holdings expand the domain level of play, while monumont
    > >rules take the game to the next level...
    >
    > I have to remember they`re called "wondrous structures" now....
    >
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

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