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  1. #21
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question
    One question......at which bloodline score does a regent change from minor to major,major to great,great to true?
    In 2nd ed they were technically independent of each other. That is a character could have a minor blodline with a higher score than character with a great bloodline had.

    In the BRCS they are likewise independent but it is possible to raise a bloodlinestrength (could also be done in 2nd ed - see Book of Regency for details on the mechanics, the BRCS mechanics are real similar though).

    BRCS - Chap 2 sanctioned version:

    Increasing bloodline strength

    Over time, a character's bloodline score may grow stronger through wise rule as a regent, by confronting the scions of other bloodlines and defeating them in heroic combat (usurpation) or by an act of Investiture. Increasing a character's bloodline strength (from minor to major, for example,) is a related, but even more difficult accomplishment.

    The first step toward increasing a scion's bloodline strength lies in his ability score. The scion must increase his bloodline score to ten or more points above its starting value. Secondly, the character must achieve public fame (or infamy) through their deeds and actions. Legendary feats build the public acclaim that is essential to increasing the strength of a character's semi-divine blood. A quest to increase one's bloodline strength requires an epic deed; an increase in bloodline strength never occurs without deeds that are the stuff of legend. A character can never increase his bloodline strength more than once in a generation; this reflects how legendary the act truly is.


    When an increase of bloodline strength occurs, the character upgrades their bloodline strength to the next level. The character is now eligible to gain another level of the scion class. Once that class level is taken then any associated benefits are gained, except the character does not gain the bonus to bloodline score that is normally associated with the scion class level – they have had to earn those bonus score points rather than inheriting them, but their future descendants will receive the bonus.
    Duane Eggert

  2. #22
    Junior Member huehar's Avatar
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    Maybe useful

    Maybe useful ideas for someone who is searching the answer now:
    in our campaign (3.5) after years and tons of research actions we found a few ways to defeat the Azrai bloodline :
    - the original Sword of vassalage (lost in Giantdowns) has the power to change the derivation of a bloodline
    - a scion with true bloodline can sacrifice the true "part" of his bloodline for the sake of purification the another's Azrai bloodline (the sacraficier will have only great bl after that)
    - there is a lvl9 cleric spell (Bloodline redemption), not well-known, used in history only once by the Ortodox Temple to purify a Roele Emperor after he killed an awnshegh (it is the opposite of the Magian's Bloodline corruption spell)

    Neither of the methods are simple but at great heroes it worth. :-)

  3. #23
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    15 years, impressive thread necro, but in a good cause ;-)

    I would take the view that after so long at least traces of all the bloodlines are in most noble lineages, so the stated bloodline is merely the 'dominant' one (although that leads to the view that scions of Azrai would be seen as very undesirable marriage material.

    To change bloodline would require:
    a. Avoiding acting in concordance with the of the old god and instead embracing the goals/motivations of the desired old god;
    b. Possibly burning bloodline strength down by conversion to RP to weaken the bloodline before trying to rebuild might be necessary.

    And then one or more of:

    1. Get some of the desired bloodline - by investiture or bloodtheft (the latter being unlikely to change a bloodline away from Azrai);
    2. Divest and be invested - but other than an elderly family member who would voluntary give up their bloodline?
    3. A quest dedicated to the new god who succeeded the old god whose bloodline is desired in order for them to 'purify' / 'bring out to dominance' the desired bloodline.

    It should be difficult (as otherwise social pressures would have wiped out the bloodline of Azrai) but possible (as the game is otherwise less fun, and setting-wise corruption is a feature in Azrai so redemption should also be present to balance it and stop it turning into call of cthulu)

    In terms of using this in game play:

    Intrigue - regent A tries to 'draw out' regent B's 'subordinate' bloodline and supplant theur dominant one in order to weaken them (usually a subordinate bloodline of Azrai, but one can see it have a bad effect if the regent of Ariya was turned away from Basaia or of Danigau away from Brenna.) That means encouraging regent B to behave according to the tenents of the subordinate bloodline, perhaps leading them to find a sielshegh which is enchanted to encourage such a switch, encouraging regent B into a duel with someone of the subordinate bloodline, etc, etc.

    Matter of Justice - regent A claims that regent B's bloodline is not as they state (perhaps after a failed arranged marriage.etc) and that Regent B's actions indicate a different bloodline lies within them. I would expect the details of a familial bloodline to be very secret so regent B to be very reluctant to have themselves probed even if magic is available to check the line directly - but without some sort of proof the rumours will damage regent B's reputation.

    Adventure - a scion seeks to change their bloodline and thus their destiny, they seek help from the PC regent for part of the quest, will the hero-king go further and venture beyond their court to aid the scion in completing their quest?

  4. #24
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Bloodtheft then reincarnation (or similar spell)? Yes, they wouldn't have any blood abailities afterwards and there may be side-effects (e.g. undoing of Long Life, Resistance), but they wouldn't have the "taint" any more.

    After all, bloodlines are about the old gods but reincarnation is about the new gods.

    Sorontar

  5. #25
    Junior Member huehar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorontar View Post
    Bloodtheft then reincarnation (or similar spell)? Yes, they wouldn't have any blood abailities afterwards and there may be side-effects (e.g. undoing of Long Life, Resistance), but they wouldn't have the "taint" any more.

    After all, bloodlines are about the old gods but reincarnation is about the new gods.

    Sorontar
    I do not know about reincarnation but about resurrection there is a rule in corebooks: after death with losing bloodline (e.g. bloodtheft) you will come back life without bloodline. I think it could be valid at reincarnation, too (the blood cannot be duplicated - one dose for the thefter and one dose for you). And they mention as well that the blood is so valuable that even Azrai cannot (should not) be destroyed (see under bloodline destruction spell). So maybe erasing the whole bloodline just because it is Azrai is not the accepted way (of course it is eligible). My DM would say: if you fear that your Azrai blood will corrupt you, you are weak. Be a real hero and conquer the corruption. :-)

  6. #26
    Member Michael Romes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danip View Post
    Hi all,
    A character in my weekly BR game set in Brechtur recently had his bloodline derivation changed to Azrai by killing a nasty Orog cleric. The character is LG and destined to be the King of a liberated Zweilunds, so this is very much bad news. We've poured thru the canon material, the BRCS, and forums, but we are still looking for inspiration about what to do with this new bad blood. Any and all ideas/comments welcome.
    What rules did you use to determine the change? The 3EBRCS?
    In that case the bloodline would only change to Azrai if the player had a weaker bloodline score than the Orog Cleric and absorbed the maximum (4X) of RP from him.

    If the Orog did release so much RP (10X his bloodline score) how is the one player the only one affected?

    Any bloodline score higher than the players would have resulted in a RP burst X 10 and that would be too high for a smaller bloodlines limit (max. 4X) to fully absorb and would be absorbed by his party members according to proximity.

    So either the others would be afflicted too - or the player would have commited bloodtheft by actively stabbing the Orog through the heart in which case he practically willingly risked to be tainted.

    Simply keeping the new derivation, and hoping that a fall to evil never happens, doesnt seem to be a good option. Are there tons of scions in Cerelia that gain the blood of Azrai and lead happy, Good lives? Should our character's view this change as a serious and bad thing? From a poetic justice and storytelling point of view, placing a scion of Azrai at the helm of your new LG nation seems to be begging for trouble. Either the new King or someone in his line seems destined to fall hard eventually.
    Would anyone know? I mean the Book of Magecraft has several spells to determine the bloodline of a character, to mask, disguise etc. That means that noone has an idea without magic that his bloodline changed - perhaps not even himself. After all it is not specifically mentioned that a scion is aware that his bloodline derivation changed. Perhaps the first signs are some ominous dreams in which an unknown voice whispers into the dreams of the PC that he needs to grow stronger to protect his comrades, family, home and realm...

    When he had a bloodline before which changed to Azrai was there any obvious change? e.g. did he lose a bloodability he had before that does not exist for Azrai? did he gain a new bloodability that only exists for Azrai? That would be in my opinion the only direct way to know that his bloodline derivation has changed.

    Suicide.
    Character walks a goodly distance away and offs himself. Blood of Azrai pours out harmlessly,
    If you use the RP burst of the 3E BRCS or similar then Azrais blood is never harmless - it might create animals, trees or even FUNGHI with Azrai´s blood. An Azrai blooded sentient MOSQUITO-swarm ^^
    The middle of the desert might be an idea - but even there would be sandsnakes or scorpions possible within the blast radius.

    then our high level party cleric raises dead the next day. Loss of level and loss of all blood (and thus kingship/destiny) results, but has the benifit of being a quick fix.
    How does the cleric atone to his deity for raising a suicide? Think of our own past - people who committed suicide were not allowed to be buried in the holy ground of graveyards for centuries in the past.
    Either the suicide itself could barr the cleric from even casting the spell successfully or the idea to steal the soul of a person who commited the highest sacrifice from his earned place in the heavens would.

    "The potential for internecine war is not taken lightly in Cerilia
    (particularly in Anuire) and thus most churches (including
    the church of Haelyn) have dire prohibitions against the resurrection
    of regent characters. Likewise many churches forbid
    the use of resurrection magic on philosophical grounds. Most
    sects of Erik and Belinik, for example, perceive death as part
    of the natural order, albeit from different perspectives"

    ...
    Bloodline Investiture
    A careful reading of the BRCS reveals that if you transfer your bloodline to someone stronger than you that person has no chance having their bloodline derivation changed. Basically the character would 'donate' his bloodline to the Count of Danigau (Bld 50+) and continue as a commoner.
    This of course brings on the question, why dont more scions do this? Several Awnies are good people who dont want to be corrupted (Siren, Manticore, Harpy, ...). Are they just selfishly holding onto their bloodline? A simple realm spell any temple knows, and bingo! no more good people turning bad against their will.
    The RP of the donator would be lost. So if he has a heir then that would get nothing.
    Depending on bloodline score there might be not that many people with a higher score who could possibly be invested in that way. IMO there should always be a risk when absorbing a bloodline of Azrai to corrupt the own bloodline, even in the case that you have a higher bloodline. The 3E BRCS is a bit rigid in that you only have that risk if you absorb the maximum RP your bloodline allows (bloodline X 4) and then lose a roll.

    However if the Count of Danigau has a bloodline of 54 he can absorb a maximum of 216 RP -1 without risk of corruption. Which means the players bloodline that would create a RP burst of 10 X bloodlinescore would be lower than 22?

    Bloodline Destruction
    Similar to above. Higher level and perhaps rarer realm spell, but still provides a ready solution inside the rules.
    That spell in the 3E BRCS costs 10 Gold Bars + RP equal to the targets bloodline score. Which is a hefty price to cure someone.

    Some random quest...
    Not loosing the bloodline, but rather having it purified and returned to the derivation of Masela it used to be would be nice. We play an adventure-level game, so something involving getting attacked by monsters would be a nice solution. A good version of the Magian's Bloodline Corruption spell known by a far off wizard maybe... Finding a powerful Erghsegh... becoming a paladin and questing for divine salvation... Any deas?

    Generally, how should a LG scion familiar with the lore of blood and Awnshegh view this development? Is this a 'hmmm, thats interesting' moment, or a 'burn myself at the stake moment'?
    Does he know? Have any bloodabilities changed to make it obvious? Has someone cast a "Know Bloodline derivation" spell?

    Perhaps the player should remain silent about that - it is not only a personal problem. There might be fanatical people in the world who would see anything with the blood of Azrai in need of being purged from existance. More radical churches might declare you outlawed if it gets know.

    Better hire a bloodline hound (specialist magician) to mask your bloodline for the time being until a solution can be found.
    Michael Romes

  7. #27
    Special Guest (Donor)
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    Quote Originally Posted by huehar View Post
    there is a lvl9 cleric spell (Bloodline redemption), not well-known, used in history only once by the Ortodox Temple to purify a Roele Emperor after he killed an awnshegh (it is the opposite of the Magian's Bloodline corruption spell)
    I know Bloodline Corruption is in Blood Enemies, but where is the Bloodline Redemption spell? I have a memory of that but can't recall from where.

    -Fizz
    Last edited by Fizz; 06-23-2021 at 01:58 AM.

  8. #28
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    The Blood Enemies version of Bloodline Corruption isn't quite the same as that in our wiki: http://www.birthright.net/forums/sho...ine_Corruption. The BE version says only Magian knows the spell (but he has scattered 4 copies to be "stolen" later by others) and that it only has been used on the Manticore. I am not sure where anyone could have found the OIT redemption version.

    Sorontar
    Sorontar
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