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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raesene Andu
    This would still probably be looked on as a fairly evil act, denying your children their birthright. Being blooded is a fairly big deal in Cerilia, it makes you someone and gives you the potential to rule. It is a very risky thing to suddenly start asking for your children's bloodlines to boost yours. What if one of them is the captain of a mercenary company with a few units under his command?
    If I force them to do it, it would be evil, but I would be giving them a choice and compensation. On the other hand, blooded bastard children (from a family with a high bloodline) could be rather useful for building alliances. It wouldn't be a sudden thing, but a general policy once they have reached puberty. As for a child wanting to be a mercenary captain, he may well prefer a bag of coins and safe base of operations rather than a bloodline. The idealistic children would probably refuse, while the practical ones accept.

    In the end the conflict comes from those players who believe that traditions would have arisen to succesfully bind individuals and those who believe that the powerful will eventually make full use of their resources or face being replaced by someone who will. In a fantasy setting it seems proper to choose either path.
    Last edited by The Jew; 09-06-2005 at 10:42 PM.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  2. #12
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    Blooded characters in Anuire

    At 04:43 AM 9/6/2005 +0200, Raesene Andu wrote:

    >Come on! What impedes a noble of having 10 bastard childrens, with peasant
    >girls, and then killing all of them??? Even if all the mothers are
    >commoners, each baby will have a bloodline equal to one-half of the
    >father`s bloodline. This is sufficient, according to the BRCS rules, to
    >always increase the father`s bloodline by one point. One point for each
    >killed son...
    >
    >Time for one thing. Bloodlines don`t manifest until puperty, so that is a
    >good number of years to wait until you can go around and bloodtheft your
    >children. Apart from that, nothing, but of course only the most evil
    >scions would ever consider doing it. It just amazes me how many times this
    >theory comes up.

    In addition to having to wait until puberty (I personally don`t think
    bloodlines should manifest until the character reaches their "age of
    majority" that is, effectively, the age at which they become 1st level
    characters; for humans that`s 15 + d4 IIRC) there are a few other reasons
    why such a plan would be very difficult to carry out. Some of these are
    house rules, others are interpretations:

    1. It`s difficult to keep such a pogram secret. Most people would not
    support a regent who engaged in such an activity, and a ruler who did so
    would likely have to face serious loyalty shifts for his realm.

    2. The peasant girls/mothers of the bastards are notoriously difficult to
    control--particularly if they suspect they are being used for such a
    purpose. Anyone in such a situation is going to be motivated towards the
    extremes of human behavior including killing the father in self-defense,
    and taking any risk to escape that situation. This is the kind of thing
    that inspires a woman`s wrath to a whole new maniacal level. It`s Category
    5 on the hurricane scale.

    3. Related to #1 & #2 is that we have many literary examples of this kind
    of background being how a young hero came about who destroys his unnatural
    or otherwise ill-fated father. They aren`t exact matches, of course,
    because bloodline is something a little different, but think of Oedipus,
    Moses, Zeus, Luke Skywalker, etc. This is especially the case when that
    son is someone who has been so horribly wronged by his father, and that
    father so depraved as to have children for the purpose of murdering
    them. Such tales exist almost universally in cultures around the world.

    4. It`s possible in the case of some of the older more powerful scions
    (Gorgon, Spider, etc.) that they are no longer capable of breeding. I
    remember reading many moons ago a humorous piece how it would be impossible
    for Superman to have a child with Lois Lane without killing her. It seems
    there are various biological reasons why such a pairing wouldn`t work,
    which for the sake of delicacy, we needn`t go into. Suffice it to say,
    however, that in the case of the Gorgon he is now size large, has a
    predominantly stoney skin and in moments of emotional extremes his gaze can
    kill. Not exactly the kind of profile that gals looking for a donor look for.

    5. One might also vitiate the amount of bloodline gained by a character who
    kills another scion of the same bloodline or derivation of that bloodline.

    Gary

  3. #13
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    To sell the blood of the Gods? The very thing that separates mortals and living gods that walk on Cerilia? I don't think that even the greediest, most radical people would want to part with their bloodline, regardless of how small it might be.

    I imagine it would be like asking someone to give up everything he believes in. If casting detect lie or know alignment is considered insulting, I wonder how people would react to "Hey, wanna sell me that ancient bloodline of yours?"

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie
    To sell the blood of the Gods? The very thing that separates mortals and living gods that walk on Cerilia? I don't think that even the greediest, most radical people would want to part with their bloodline, regardless of how small it might be.

    I imagine it would be like asking someone to give up everything he believes in. If casting detect lie or know alignment is considered insulting, I wonder how people would react to "Hey, wanna sell me that ancient bloodline of yours?"
    And even in the very rich world which we live in many people do sell out what they believe in for a good job. But in a world in which the lifestyle difference between the elite and commoners is tremendous, a chance to move between the two economic groups would be worth most anything.

    I would agree that the stronger the bloodline is, the less chance that the child would be willing to part with it. So a bastard son of Avan would actually have special powers from his bloodline, which would make it very hard to part with them, since invariably they will have manifested prior to him being able to part with them; while a bastard son of Carilon Alam would only have the knowledge that he has the blood of the gods within him, but without any noticeable effect.

    And it would be a lot subtlet than 'hey you want to sell me that bloodline of yours'. They would have full knowledge from the time they were children of their ability to part with their future bloodline for a compensation. This would be to strengthen the realm against [place name of realms enemy here]. As children they would have a somewhat priveleged lifestyle, but still have chances to view the lives of peasants. Upon developing the bloodline they would then have the oppurtunity to remain within the world of nobles or set up in any profession of their choosing if they should be willing to strengthen the realm with the loss of their bloodline, or they will have to face the cruel world alone. Of course a truly exceptional child may be given a third option, they may have significant value for marriages or be groomed as a possible heir should tragedy befall my real children.
    Last edited by The Jew; 09-06-2005 at 11:29 PM.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  5. #15
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    Actually, reading this I can imagine a whole new range of activities in Anuire, illicit bloodline trade, guilds operating it, villains running the show, and decadent nobles buying bloodlines like someone would drugs today or kidnapping the children of the wealthy to be sold for bloodharvest someplace far away.

    Scary..
    Not heroic fantasy, but very interesting

  6. #16
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Also, to transfer a bloodline successfully, a priest must cast the realm spell Bloodline Investiture. Certain gods may not look kindly on people trading away their divine bloodlines for mere coin.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie
    Actually, reading this I can imagine a whole new range of activities in Anuire, illicit bloodline trade, guilds operating it, villains running the show, and decadent nobles buying bloodlines like someone would drugs today or kidnapping the children of the wealthy to be sold for bloodharvest someplace far away.

    Scary..
    Not heroic fantasy, but very interesting
    What do you mean, it's classic heroic fantasy. Without the evil villians and their machinations how can the hero save the day? In the current campaign i'm part Guilder Kalien actually tried to put something similar to that into operation. I on the other hand, playing arron VAumel, was getting my Luietenant to seduce high blooded nobles, witht the intention of creating creating a flock of children to eventually divest. I'm pretty sure the temple of Eloele would not have had a problem, for a price.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raesene Andu
    Also, to transfer a bloodline successfully, a priest must cast the realm spell Bloodline Investiture. Certain gods may not look kindly on people trading away their divine bloodlines for mere coin.
    Yeah that would be a problem. In Anuire it would probably require a priestess of Eloele or her mother. Mieres could make a pretty penny being the site for such transfers.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  9. #19

    one more argument

    Let's not forget one more argument to add to all the excellent things mentioned by Raesene and those who argue that it wouldn't happen.... if you buy a bloodline, assuming that the gods don't mind it.... Avan investing himself with say..... reynir blood.... even gaining just 1 point.... there is the realistic posibility, although unstated in the rules (than with Azrai), that tainting your Anduiras blood with the blood of other gods would turn you into a mut, and eventually the "bought" blood points could outnumber the orginal and force a change in the derivation. This of course wouldn't happen if you bought your bastard sons bloodline, but think about this really strongly.....

    In real life, in your own life in this real world, you are told from the begining of your days by your mother, that you literally have the blood of a GOD coursing through your veins, and you truly believe it. Magic and miracles really exist to the extent they do in BR, in our world. Just how many MILLIONS of dollars would Donald Trump, Bill Gates, etc. have to offer you before you would actually give up that claim to GLORY and power. Would you really give it up "for a few coins" a 1995 chevy caprice, a 3 bedroom house or being named the county supervisor or mayor of a no name 2,000 population city? Heck no. Now think about what medieval life was really like and just what kind of an edge this would give the person over all of those downtrodden nobodies that have to work the field everyday. It would be like walking into McDonalds and finding the 15 year old son of an unwed mother who knows someday his GODS blood will take him outta the Ghetto. What would it take for him to sell the ability to take his whole family away from that.... probably at least a million dollars, or at least the equivalent of a senators position in the US federal government (I'm from USA btw) Now do you think that its really economical for the regents of Cerilia to offer the BR equivalent of a million dollars (probably like 50 GB or something) for 1 blood point which is all they will get (according to original BR rules)?

  10. #20
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    If this sort of thing happened in one of my games, then I would penalise the regent with a minor loss of regency (maybe losing the 1 pt he gains) as his people look on him as a cheapskate who isn't willing to work to improve his bloodline.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

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