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Thread: Espionage

  1. #1
    Felix
    Guest

    Espionage

    There's something that has always confused me. Why in the world must a
    regent have a holding in another regent's domain in order to do espionage
    against him/her? Why this restriction when a PC spy could do the job by
    simply infiltrating in a regent's holding? In any other campaign, it would
    seem reasonable to pay a NPC spy (or even a PC one) 500 - 1000 gp to
    infiltrate in a king's court and find out (after gaining his trust) secrets
    of the state or whatever. But in BR, in order for a spy to work properly,
    the spy's patron needs to own a holding in the province where the spy is to
    work. Why? Wheres the logic in that? I can understand that if the target
    espionage holding is relatively distant from the regent's domain (like
    Avanil is to Aerenwe). But why using this rule when the target holding is
    just a few miles away?

    Thanks

    Felix
    jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt

  2. #2
    Morten Helles
    Guest

    Espionage

    > There's something that has always confused me. Why in the world must a
    > regent have a holding in another regent's domain in order to do
    > espionage against him/her? Why this restriction when a PC spy could do
    > the job by simply infiltrating in a regent's holding? In any other
    > campaign, it would seem reasonable to pay a NPC spy (or even a PC one)
    > 500 - 1000 gp to infiltrate in a king's court and find out (after
    > gaining his trust) secrets of the state or whatever. But in BR, in order
    > for a spy to work properly, the spy's patron needs to own a holding in
    > the province where the spy is to work. Why? Wheres the logic in that? I
    > can understand that if the target espionage holding is relatively distant
    > from the regent's domain (like Avanil is to Aerenwe). But why using this
    > rule when the target holding is just a few miles away?

    I have to agree with you on the oddity of this rule. I do believe,
    however, that the designer thought about the complexity of doing
    espionage in another regents domain. Although some some actions are
    "easy", like revealing the nature of diplomatic agreements between any
    two domains, other actions are much harder, like creating corruption or
    heresy in another domain. This latter action may require more than
    simply a single spy.

    In my opinion you raise a more fundamental question: Why do regents have
    to spend all those resources on the simplest of tasks? Why, for
    instance, does it take a regent a month's work to aqquire a lieutenant,
    if he already knows who he wants? It should not take too long to
    determine if the person in question is willing to become a lieutenant,
    and definitely not a month of a regent's very precious time! And why
    can't a non-thief regent with guild holdings not do the espionage action
    for free like the thief? After all, he might have the same strong
    connections to the underworld.

    I believe that the reasons for these oddities are that they are special
    cases, or technical game solutions, and they need special handling by
    the DM: If he deems them too easy to take a hole month, then he may
    override the rules as it is his right to do.

    Morten.

    +

  3. #3
    Nutbutter3@aol.co
    Guest

    Espionage

    In a message dated 97-07-05 01:55:32 EDT, you write:

    >

    I think that it goes like this, if a regent has a holding in a province that
    they are doing Espionage on it is like they have several if not more "agents"
    working on the job. its not just one person but many people on the payroll to
    do what ever it is the regent wants done bcause it takes more than a few
    people to do serious spying and info getting over extended periods of time.
    Where as a regent could always hire a single spy to do something like an
    assasination or if the regent just wanted documonts or info they could do
    the same thing but the quality of the information would be worse then going
    through a large network of spies.

    The almighty Professor Nutbutter
    Nutbutter8@juno.com

  4. #4
    Brenda L Santer
    Guest

    Espionage

    >> There's something that has always confused me. Why in the world must a
    >> regent have a holding in another regent's domain in order to do
    >> espionage against him/her? Why this restriction when a PC spy could do
    >> the job by simply infiltrating in a regent's holding? In any other
    >> campaign, it would seem reasonable to pay a NPC spy (or even a PC one)
    >> 500 - 1000 gp to infiltrate in a king's court and find out (after
    >> gaining his trust) secrets of the state or whatever. But in BR, in order
    >> for a spy to work properly, the spy's patron needs to own a holding in
    >> the province where the spy is to work. Why? Wheres the logic in that? I
    >> can understand that if the target espionage holding is relatively distant
    >> from the regent's domain (like Avanil is to Aerenwe). But why using this
    >> rule when the target holding is just a few miles away?
    >
    >I have to agree with you on the oddity of this rule. I do believe,
    >however, that the designer thought about the complexity of doing
    >espionage in another regents domain. Although some some actions are
    >"easy", like revealing the nature of diplomatic agreements between any
    >two domains, other actions are much harder, like creating corruption or
    >heresy in another domain. This latter action may require more than
    >simply a single spy.
    >
    >In my opinion you raise a more fundamental question: Why do regents have
    >to spend all those resources on the simplest of tasks? Why, for
    >instance, does it take a regent a month's work to aqquire a lieutenant,
    >if he already knows who he wants? It should not take too long to
    >determine if the person in question is willing to become a lieutenant,
    >and definitely not a month of a regent's very precious time! And why
    >can't a non-thief regent with guild holdings not do the espionage action
    >for free like the thief? After all, he might have the same strong
    >connections to the underworld.
    >
    >I believe that the reasons for these oddities are that they are special
    >cases, or technical game solutions, and they need special handling by
    >the DM: If he deems them too easy to take a hole month, then he may
    >override the rules as it is his right to do.
    >
    >Morten.
    >

    In the campaigns that I run I have always thought of the create lieutenant
    action as follows. Yes, the ruler knows who he wishes to make a
    lieutenant. Asking the person is a simple matter. Getting a reply from the
    person is not likley to be that difficult either. However, simply asking a
    person to do the job and having that person agree does not complete the
    job. For the rest of the month, the ruler and his new lieutenant are
    working together to get the lieutenant trained into his new role. The
    lieutenant gets a more indepth job description, a better understanding of
    his/her ruler's expectations, what is part of the job, what had better be
    left alone, the resources that are at the disposal of the lieutenant. It
    is the equivalent of the new counter person at your favourite fast food
    place wearing a TRAINEE badge for a while. No one can be expected to do
    that job well immediately. It makes sense to me that a job as important as
    being lieutenant to a country's ruler would require at least as much
    training. Who better to train that person than the ruler? As anyone who
    has ever trained a new employee knows, answering all of those questions
    takes TIME. So to me it makes sense that a ruler needs a month of time to
    Create a Lieutenant, while the Grant action,which gives someone a new Title
    is a free action, since giving someone a title is only a formality using
    little of the ruler's time or energy.

    Brenda Santer

    *************************************
    Brenda Santer:


    mailto:bls127@mail.usask.ca
    *************************************

  5. #5
    Seb Berendse
    Guest

    Espionage

    Felix wrote:
    > There's something that has always confused me. Why in the world must a
    > regent have a holding in another regent's domain in order to do espionage
    > against him/her? But why using this rule when the target holding is
    > just a few miles away?

    I totally agree with you, and I might add that I already had some
    problems with it during play. I use Esp. frequently (I'm a guilder)
    but a lot of the times they fail or nearly pass for I just can't
    spend all my money on a mission to bring the difficulty down
    far away where I don't have holdings.
    Shitty as it looks.
    Base
    ************************************************** ***********************
    Sebastiaan G.P. Berendse
    148530@student.fbk.eur.nl

    There is a world just around the corner of your mind
    where reality is an intruder and dreams come true.
    You may escape into it at will, you need no secret password,
    magic wand or Alladins Lamp, all you need is your own imagination...
    ************************************************** ************************

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