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  1. #11
    JOHN RICKARDS
    Guest

    Sources and the Seas

    As far as I know, much of the deep seas - ie. below the level where
    light reaches - is pretty much barren. Down to a certain level you
    find fish like the angler fish with luminescent lures etc. etc.
    Beyond that (outside such special case zones as black smokers and the
    like) the depths of the ocean are relatively empty.
    Coastal and surface waters will be teeming with life, but I would
    include coastal waters with their coastal provinces (as I recall
    "coast" is one of the terrain types in the domain designer in the BR
    rulebook). I'd say that mid-ocean water has currents etc. - ie life
    is migratory, unlike forests or whatever - and the life that is there
    at any one time is not enough to create magical sources (OK, there's
    a lot of plankton etc. along with the fish, but there's a lot of
    microscopic algae and fungi on land too).

    On the other hand, sea magic could lead to a really excellent
    "Waterworld" style game......


    John Rickards

    "He who is looking for something has lost something."
    "And he who is not looking?"
    "He gets run over."



    PS. Dan. Hahahahaha.

  2. #12
    Nadastor
    Guest

    Sources and the Seas

    But do you truly want to leave all that great earth behind and go
    adventuring underwater in BR ?

    I don't like when the things go too strange, too faboulistic, i prefer the
    epic side of the setting. So i think more interesting to think what our
    realm mages, either pc or npc, can do with all this suorce of magic.

    IMHO if we confront the earth and the water the first has a more concentred
    life, so ocean wouldn't be nine source, i think something beetwen 3 and 6,
    accorind to concentration in that or that other region.

    For all i care i'm not thinking about making nwe maps with source provinces
    for the sea, nor making new intelligent races to populate the ocean, i'm
    only searching for a rational explanation on why the wizards haven't used
    this power in the past.

    I think about adding this to my campaign with something like this:
    "yes, there's power, undisputed, it's great and easy power, but for THAT
    REASON (I don't know, i'm asking to you) wizard haven't toke advantage from
    this"
    And it may be something that in a desperate situation can become the last
    opportunity for PCs, so i can create an adventure with this idea.
    Nadastor, Wizard of the Black Robes
    "The power of a man is not in his hands, but in his eyes !
    His life is not into his body, but into his mind !
    The world is not around him, but is in him !"

  3. #13
    Nadastor
    Guest

    Sources and the Seas

    At 23.28 27/05/97 +1300, you wrote:
    >>Yeah unless you added some undersea races to utilize the sources, so all
    >>sea sources wouldn't be owned by land wizards, I wouldn't include sea
    >>sources. I think they tried to create a balance between meighbhel and
    >>province levels on the Cerilian continent. And if wizards can suddenly
    >>get all the source power they want from the sea they would stop fighting
    >>for their land sources and then the game would shift to a more polarized
    >>type of deal with wizards dueling for the seas and most countries having
    >>very high province levels. But maybe that's not all that bad, it would
    >>definately make sea power a lot more important.
    >
    >What about all the fishing causing an impact similar to the impact of
    >population on the land albeit smaller. Then there is all the traffic of
    >trade routes and diplomatic missions. Coastal areas would be in much greater
    >demand for mages (as opposed to now where they have no added incentive).
    >
    >Brian
    >A game for children
    >Is the bane of men,
    >Where loss is greater
    >Than the win.
    > - War


    And how do you explain the past, how you add this into the birthright
    campaign as it is, i mean, without rewrite all history and events ?

    Nadastor, Wizard of the Black Robes
    "The power of a man is not in his hands, but in his eyes !
    His life is not into his body, but into his mind !
    The world is not around him, but is in him !"

  4. #14
    L.Willett
    Guest

    Sources and the Seas

    >> Fishing would only have an impact once fishing technology and methods
    >>greatly improved. Its wasn't until this century that any noticeable damage
    >>to the fishing industry was done.
    >
    >I don't know about that...i know of several now extinct whale species
    >who would disagree with you, not to mention several aquatic bird
    >species. Technology only makes it easier, but isn't necessary.

    With regrets to the extinct species, it still wasn't all that damaging.
    The amount of life didn't really change all that much (mind you, eco-cycle
    may be disturded - who eats who, etc.).
    My point was that Renaissance level fishing activity wouldn't really
    making much of a different here.


    -

  5. #15
    Vestrii@aol.co
    Guest

    Sources and the Seas

    In a message dated 97-05-27 12:50:43 EDT, you write:

    > Fishing would only have an impact once fishing technology
    > and methods greatly improved. Its wasn't until this century
    > that any noticeable damage to the fishing industry was done.

    Despite the other post that points out that some damage is
    done even without technology I would have to agree with
    this point. Many species were decimated earlier than this
    century but not by much. We're really talking about within
    the last two centuries. Before that man did not have the
    technology to destroy the environment. If you've read
    Steinbecks "Cannery Row" then you're familiar with my
    hometown Monterey. It wasn't until the 1950s or so that
    the Sardines were depleted after many years of overfishing
    made possible by the technology of the boats. Just compare
    a modern fishing boat with one from the Rennaissance
    and you'll see my point.

    What I think is a good idea, and I'm not sure if this has been
    propossed before, is to allow fishing guild holdings. These
    simulate the bounty from the seas and the infrastructure to
    exploit it in a significant manner. Have the sea "province"
    have a dual rating like a land province with the level of the
    guild descreasing the possible level of the source. The only
    problem I see with this is balance. This definately favors
    coastal realms over their landlocked neighbors.

    Dave

  6. #16
    Robert Ripley
    Guest

    Sources and the Seas

    Nadastor wrote:

    > At 23.28 27/05/97 +1300, you wrote:
    > >>Yeah unless you added some undersea races to utilize the sources, so
    > all
    > >>sea sources wouldn't be owned by land wizards, I wouldn't include
    > sea
    > >>sources. I think they tried to create a balance between meighbhel
    > and
    > >>province levels on the Cerilian continent. And if wizards can
    > suddenly
    > >>get all the source power they want from the sea they would stop
    > fighting
    > >>for their land sources and then the game would shift to a more
    > polarized
    > >>type of deal with wizards dueling for the seas and most countries
    > having
    > >>very high province levels. But maybe that's not all that bad, it
    > would
    > >>definately make sea power a lot more important.
    > >
    > >What about all the fishing causing an impact similar to the impact of
    >
    > >population on the land albeit smaller. Then there is all the traffic
    > of
    > >trade routes and diplomatic missions. Coastal areas would be in much
    > greater
    > >demand for mages (as opposed to now where they have no added
    > incentive).
    > >
    > >Brian
    > >A game for children
    > >Is the bane of men,
    > >Where loss is greater
    > >Than the win.
    > > - War
    >
    > And how do you explain the past, how you add this into the birthright
    > campaign as it is, i mean, without rewrite all history and events ?

    Well either you could say an unknown race of Merpeople have hidden the
    sources from the land wizards or you can try to explain it by having the
    "manifestations" in places hard to find (the ocean is a big old place)
    and that no one has ever found one so they figured that there wasn't
    any.
    - --

    Bob R.

    ************************************************** *****************************

    PBeM- Birthright, Regents of the Southern Marches
    http://home.earthlink.net/~bobripley/index.html
    http://home.earthlink.net/~bobripley/page3.html
    bobripley@earthlink.net
    ************************************************** *****************************

  7. #17
    TSRRich@aol.co
    Guest

    Sources and the Seas

    In a message dated 97-05-27 03:24:09 EDT, you write:

    > I see the 'sources and the sea' question as being a great
    >opportunity for the GM to introduce all sorts of intelligent, underwater
    >races. We know there are sahaguin in Birthright, why not every other
    >water-nased race. And, if they're intelligent, why can't they have mages
    >who tap the sources of the sea?
    >
    >

    A can of worms, indeed...but a very interesting question. Wonder what the
    aquatic elves of Aebrynis might be like? Or, maybe you've found the answer
    for what /really/ happened to the Masetians...

    Rich Baker
    Birthright Designer

  8. #18
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    Sources and the Seas

    I'm liking all the response, but another question here:

    Would the wizard have to be _underwater_ to cast the spells, or just _on_
    the water? Even if this particular wizard had to remain underwater, he
    could do so for an indefinite period of time (I believe, no book handy...
    oops if I'm wrong here...)

    Thanks

    Tim Nutting/Zero

  9. #19
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    Sources and the Seas

    > races. We know there are sahaguin in Birthright, why not every other
    > water-nased race. And, if they're intelligent, why can't they have mages
    > who tap the sources of the sea?


    My only problem here is that the bloodlines were spread about amongst those
    followers at Diesmaar who most closely matched the ethos of thier gods.
    Not too many undersea races were present (none at all by every
    recolection), and at that, undersea peoples _very_ rarely follow landwalker
    gods. As it is, undersea bloodlines (absolutely necessary for realm magic,
    not even elves can cast realm magic without a bloodline (unless you wanna
    change the rules, cool...)) would have to be _very_ rare, and there'd
    either be one hell of alot of empty spaces or some _really_ powerful
    casters!

    Anyway, keep it coming, great stuff all!

    Zero

  10. #20
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    Sources and the Seas

    > on land: Sun=Fire, Earth=Earth, Rain=Water, and the Sky=Air. Beneath the
    > oceans seldomn if ever do more then 3 of the elements come into contact,
    so
    > they do not become points at which the Mebbhail(sp?)can be drained from
    the
    > land. Its not perfect reasoning, but it works well enough to keep
    undersea
    > Regents for disrupting your game.


    Hate to do this:

    Fire: Underwater volcanos and active magma, plate tectonics and the like
    Earth: The ocean floor
    Water: The countless gallons of sea-water
    Air: Magma breaks apart the H2O atoms in water, mixing with soil
    nutrients, and so a sort of "air" bubbles up from happenstances of "fire"

    All 4 elements in relative proximity....

    :)

    Zero

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