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Thread: Sources and the Seas
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05-27-1997, 01:28 PM #11JOHN RICKARDSGuest
Sources and the Seas
As far as I know, much of the deep seas - ie. below the level where
light reaches - is pretty much barren. Down to a certain level you
find fish like the angler fish with luminescent lures etc. etc.
Beyond that (outside such special case zones as black smokers and the
like) the depths of the ocean are relatively empty.
Coastal and surface waters will be teeming with life, but I would
include coastal waters with their coastal provinces (as I recall
"coast" is one of the terrain types in the domain designer in the BR
rulebook). I'd say that mid-ocean water has currents etc. - ie life
is migratory, unlike forests or whatever - and the life that is there
at any one time is not enough to create magical sources (OK, there's
a lot of plankton etc. along with the fish, but there's a lot of
microscopic algae and fungi on land too).
On the other hand, sea magic could lead to a really excellent
"Waterworld" style game......
John Rickards
"He who is looking for something has lost something."
"And he who is not looking?"
"He gets run over."
PS. Dan. Hahahahaha.
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05-27-1997, 01:34 PM #12NadastorGuest
Sources and the Seas
But do you truly want to leave all that great earth behind and go
adventuring underwater in BR ?
I don't like when the things go too strange, too faboulistic, i prefer the
epic side of the setting. So i think more interesting to think what our
realm mages, either pc or npc, can do with all this suorce of magic.
IMHO if we confront the earth and the water the first has a more concentred
life, so ocean wouldn't be nine source, i think something beetwen 3 and 6,
accorind to concentration in that or that other region.
For all i care i'm not thinking about making nwe maps with source provinces
for the sea, nor making new intelligent races to populate the ocean, i'm
only searching for a rational explanation on why the wizards haven't used
this power in the past.
I think about adding this to my campaign with something like this:
"yes, there's power, undisputed, it's great and easy power, but for THAT
REASON (I don't know, i'm asking to you) wizard haven't toke advantage from
this"
And it may be something that in a desperate situation can become the last
opportunity for PCs, so i can create an adventure with this idea.
Nadastor, Wizard of the Black Robes
"The power of a man is not in his hands, but in his eyes !
His life is not into his body, but into his mind !
The world is not around him, but is in him !"
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05-27-1997, 01:42 PM #13NadastorGuest
Sources and the Seas
At 23.28 27/05/97 +1300, you wrote:
>>Yeah unless you added some undersea races to utilize the sources, so all
>>sea sources wouldn't be owned by land wizards, I wouldn't include sea
>>sources. I think they tried to create a balance between meighbhel and
>>province levels on the Cerilian continent. And if wizards can suddenly
>>get all the source power they want from the sea they would stop fighting
>>for their land sources and then the game would shift to a more polarized
>>type of deal with wizards dueling for the seas and most countries having
>>very high province levels. But maybe that's not all that bad, it would
>>definately make sea power a lot more important.
>
>What about all the fishing causing an impact similar to the impact of
>population on the land albeit smaller. Then there is all the traffic of
>trade routes and diplomatic missions. Coastal areas would be in much greater
>demand for mages (as opposed to now where they have no added incentive).
>
>Brian
>A game for children
>Is the bane of men,
>Where loss is greater
>Than the win.
> - War
And how do you explain the past, how you add this into the birthright
campaign as it is, i mean, without rewrite all history and events ?
Nadastor, Wizard of the Black Robes
"The power of a man is not in his hands, but in his eyes !
His life is not into his body, but into his mind !
The world is not around him, but is in him !"
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05-27-1997, 08:28 PM #14L.WillettGuest
Sources and the Seas
>> Fishing would only have an impact once fishing technology and methods
>>greatly improved. Its wasn't until this century that any noticeable damage
>>to the fishing industry was done.
>
>I don't know about that...i know of several now extinct whale species
>who would disagree with you, not to mention several aquatic bird
>species. Technology only makes it easier, but isn't necessary.
With regrets to the extinct species, it still wasn't all that damaging.
The amount of life didn't really change all that much (mind you, eco-cycle
may be disturded - who eats who, etc.).
My point was that Renaissance level fishing activity wouldn't really
making much of a different here.
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05-27-1997, 09:26 PM #15Vestrii@aol.coGuest
Sources and the Seas
In a message dated 97-05-27 12:50:43 EDT, you write:
> Fishing would only have an impact once fishing technology
> and methods greatly improved. Its wasn't until this century
> that any noticeable damage to the fishing industry was done.
Despite the other post that points out that some damage is
done even without technology I would have to agree with
this point. Many species were decimated earlier than this
century but not by much. We're really talking about within
the last two centuries. Before that man did not have the
technology to destroy the environment. If you've read
Steinbecks "Cannery Row" then you're familiar with my
hometown Monterey. It wasn't until the 1950s or so that
the Sardines were depleted after many years of overfishing
made possible by the technology of the boats. Just compare
a modern fishing boat with one from the Rennaissance
and you'll see my point.
What I think is a good idea, and I'm not sure if this has been
propossed before, is to allow fishing guild holdings. These
simulate the bounty from the seas and the infrastructure to
exploit it in a significant manner. Have the sea "province"
have a dual rating like a land province with the level of the
guild descreasing the possible level of the source. The only
problem I see with this is balance. This definately favors
coastal realms over their landlocked neighbors.
Dave
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05-27-1997, 10:38 PM #16Robert RipleyGuest
Sources and the Seas
Nadastor wrote:
> At 23.28 27/05/97 +1300, you wrote:
> >>Yeah unless you added some undersea races to utilize the sources, so
> all
> >>sea sources wouldn't be owned by land wizards, I wouldn't include
> sea
> >>sources. I think they tried to create a balance between meighbhel
> and
> >>province levels on the Cerilian continent. And if wizards can
> suddenly
> >>get all the source power they want from the sea they would stop
> fighting
> >>for their land sources and then the game would shift to a more
> polarized
> >>type of deal with wizards dueling for the seas and most countries
> having
> >>very high province levels. But maybe that's not all that bad, it
> would
> >>definately make sea power a lot more important.
> >
> >What about all the fishing causing an impact similar to the impact of
>
> >population on the land albeit smaller. Then there is all the traffic
> of
> >trade routes and diplomatic missions. Coastal areas would be in much
> greater
> >demand for mages (as opposed to now where they have no added
> incentive).
> >
> >Brian
> >A game for children
> >Is the bane of men,
> >Where loss is greater
> >Than the win.
> > - War
>
> And how do you explain the past, how you add this into the birthright
> campaign as it is, i mean, without rewrite all history and events ?
Well either you could say an unknown race of Merpeople have hidden the
sources from the land wizards or you can try to explain it by having the
"manifestations" in places hard to find (the ocean is a big old place)
and that no one has ever found one so they figured that there wasn't
any.
- --
Bob R.
************************************************** *****************************
PBeM- Birthright, Regents of the Southern Marches
http://home.earthlink.net/~bobripley/index.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~bobripley/page3.html
bobripley@earthlink.net
************************************************** *****************************
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05-28-1997, 02:09 AM #17TSRRich@aol.coGuest
Sources and the Seas
In a message dated 97-05-27 03:24:09 EDT, you write:
> I see the 'sources and the sea' question as being a great
>opportunity for the GM to introduce all sorts of intelligent, underwater
>races. We know there are sahaguin in Birthright, why not every other
>water-nased race. And, if they're intelligent, why can't they have mages
>who tap the sources of the sea?
>
>
A can of worms, indeed...but a very interesting question. Wonder what the
aquatic elves of Aebrynis might be like? Or, maybe you've found the answer
for what /really/ happened to the Masetians...
Rich Baker
Birthright Designer
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05-28-1997, 07:02 AM #18
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Sources and the Seas
I'm liking all the response, but another question here:
Would the wizard have to be _underwater_ to cast the spells, or just _on_
the water? Even if this particular wizard had to remain underwater, he
could do so for an indefinite period of time (I believe, no book handy...
oops if I'm wrong here...)
Thanks
Tim Nutting/Zero
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05-28-1997, 07:05 AM #19
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Sources and the Seas
> races. We know there are sahaguin in Birthright, why not every other
> water-nased race. And, if they're intelligent, why can't they have mages
> who tap the sources of the sea?
My only problem here is that the bloodlines were spread about amongst those
followers at Diesmaar who most closely matched the ethos of thier gods.
Not too many undersea races were present (none at all by every
recolection), and at that, undersea peoples _very_ rarely follow landwalker
gods. As it is, undersea bloodlines (absolutely necessary for realm magic,
not even elves can cast realm magic without a bloodline (unless you wanna
change the rules, cool...)) would have to be _very_ rare, and there'd
either be one hell of alot of empty spaces or some _really_ powerful
casters!
Anyway, keep it coming, great stuff all!
Zero
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05-28-1997, 07:18 AM #20
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Sources and the Seas
> on land: Sun=Fire, Earth=Earth, Rain=Water, and the Sky=Air. Beneath the
> oceans seldomn if ever do more then 3 of the elements come into contact,
so
> they do not become points at which the Mebbhail(sp?)can be drained from
the
> land. Its not perfect reasoning, but it works well enough to keep
undersea
> Regents for disrupting your game.
Hate to do this:
Fire: Underwater volcanos and active magma, plate tectonics and the like
Earth: The ocean floor
Water: The countless gallons of sea-water
Air: Magma breaks apart the H2O atoms in water, mixing with soil
nutrients, and so a sort of "air" bubbles up from happenstances of "fire"
All 4 elements in relative proximity....
:)
Zero
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