Aduria, Awnsheglien and godhood

[KAI BESTE]

> > Does anyone else think it might be possible that Azrai might have
survived
> > Diesmar? In Ruins of Empire there is reference to a church named the Hand
> > of Azrai, and I could swear that the archpriest was a spell-caster of some
> > kind.
>
> The church in the Gorgon's Crown is run by a mysterious woman, and
> the church (or the woman) is called the Hand of Azrai. I think, since
> the Gorgon is Azrai's champion - his right hand man if you will -
> this could be some Gorgon-worship cult. I don't know whether they
> would still get priest powers, or if they did, whether tjose powers
> might come form Kriesha or Belenik indirectly. Remember the Gorgon
> would have killed both those gods and stolen their bloodline, but he
> hasn't figured out a way to bring them to Cerilia yet.

Yes, it could be a Gorgon worship cult. It sounds much like the Sons
of the Serpent, who worship the awnsheigh of the same name. But
according to the Cities of the Sun, the powers of the Sons of the
Serpent comes from the Serpent himself (don't ask me how, but I read
it somewhere). Maybe the Gorgon should be treated as a demigod - he
certainly has the power to match. To separate them from the other
major Awnsheglien, what makes the Gorgon and the Serpent demigods is
their desire to acquire godhood. Maybe they will become gods if they
get enough followers - a freightening thought. I can't imagine Rhoubhe
Manslayer wanting to be a god - after all, gods are a human concept.
I don't think Azrai is still alive, all the old gods died at
Deismaar. If he still lived, there would be no bloodlines of Azrai.
And he certainly would have challenged the other gods by now.

thanx for reading
Kai

[Daniel Goethe]

>I don't think Azrai is still alive, all the old gods died at
>Deismaar. If he still lived, there would be no bloodlines of Azrai.
>And he certainly would have challenged the other gods by now.

I thought that Azrai went into the Shadow world after Deismaar.. I was sure
I had read that somewhere, but I do not have my books her, so I am not
really certain anymore.

If he did, it would be possible for him to come back, wouldn't it?

Daniel

[Trevor Romkey]

At 04:04 PM 13/05/97 CET, you wrote:
>> > Does anyone else think it might be possible that Azrai might have
>survived
>> > Diesmar? In Ruins of Empire there is reference to a church named the Hand
>> > of Azrai, and I could swear that the archpriest was a spell-caster of some
>> > kind.
>>
>> The church in the Gorgon's Crown is run by a mysterious woman, and
>> the church (or the woman) is called the Hand of Azrai. I think, since
>> the Gorgon is Azrai's champion - his right hand man if you will -
>> this could be some Gorgon-worship cult. I don't know whether they
>> would still get priest powers, or if they did, whether tjose powers
>> might come form Kriesha or Belenik indirectly. Remember the Gorgon
>> would have killed both those gods and stolen their bloodline, but he
>> hasn't figured out a way to bring them to Cerilia yet.
>
>Yes, it could be a Gorgon worship cult. It sounds much like the Sons
>of the Serpent, who worship the awnsheigh of the same name. But
>according to the Cities of the Sun, the powers of the Sons of the
>Serpent comes from the Serpent himself (don't ask me how, but I read
>it somewhere). Maybe the Gorgon should be treated as a demigod - he
>certainly has the power to match. To separate them from the other
>major Awnsheglien, what makes the Gorgon and the Serpent demigods is
>their desire to acquire godhood. Maybe they will become gods if they
>get enough followers - a freightening thought. I can't imagine Rhoubhe
>Manslayer wanting to be a god - after all, gods are a human concept.
>I don't think Azrai is still alive, all the old gods died at
>Deismaar. If he still lived, there would be no bloodlines of Azrai.
>And he certainly would have challenged the other gods by now.
>
>thanx for reading
>Kai
>
>
Of course, following AD&D logic none of the gods are dead, not in the
mortal sense, when a diety dies his remaining power resides on the astral
plane in the form of a "stone lump".(Planescape guide to the Astral Plane)
No deity, in recorded history, has been "resurrected" but the core of
his/her/it's beliefs survive so it is theoretically possible.
With the bizarre transfer of power that is part of the BR milieu perhaps
if enough of this power were focalized, with the proper incantations etc.,
the god could be re-energized. It would be a great campaign plot line, but
even more so for one of the "good" deities, how would Haelyn react to the
possibilty of Anduiras being brought back(effectively putting him out of a
job and perhaps stripping him of his divinity), why waste resurrection on
Azrai(who's response would be unsurprising) a lot more fun the other way...


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[Goldngrifn@aol.co]

In a message dated 97-05-13 15:51:16 EDT, you write:

I don't think Azrai is still alive, all the old gods died at
>Deismaar. If he still lived, there would be no bloodlines of Azrai.
>And he certainly would have challenged the other gods by now.

I thought that Azrai went into the Shadow world after Deismaar.. I was sure
I had read that somewhere, but I do not have my books her, so I am not
really certain anymore.

If he did, it would be possible for him to come back, wouldn't it?

Daniel
>>

Certainly the "old Gods" would not have self-destructed if Azrai was in the
Shadow World. Azrai used the Shadow World and its denizens, to propogate his
evil plans to dominate the world. What I bellieve happened is--Azrai came
out of the SW to lead the forces of evil at the Battle of MD; when he saw
that his side was going to lose (especially when "most" of the elves changed
sides) he was going to use his divine power to crush the enemy. Then the
other Gods decided to intervene themselves; so Azrai may have attemptedto
escape via the Shadow World, and the Gods' destruction was to prevent his
escape, even though they died. If Azrai was not killed, how could his
Bloodline Derivative have been created?

The Golden Griffon

[JOHN RICKARDS]

> I thought that Azrai went into the Shadow world after Deismaar.. I was sure
> I had read that somewhere, but I do not have my books her, so I am not
> really certain anymore.
>
> If he did, it would be possible for him to come back, wouldn't it?
>
> Daniel

I don't know about Azrai - I don't recall reading that, as far as I
know he was killed. The Raven, who was originally one of Azrais chief
lieutenant-things as far as I recall, was blown into the Shadow World
and only emerged when the Vos warlord Pyotr Tusilev(?) went in there
and got possessed - see Blood Enemies.

John Rickards

"He who is looking for something has lost something."
"And he who is not looking?"
"He gets run over."



PS. Dan. Hahahahaha.

[Matthew M. Colville]

The obvious answer to the question: Is Azrai Alive is "no."

If he were not killed at Deismaar, how could there be scions of his
bloodline? The one precludes the other.

[Hatzitaskos]

> The obvious answer to the question: Is Azrai Alive is "no."
>
> If he were not killed at Deismaar, how could there be scions of his
>bloodline? The one precludes the other.

In general i agree. But that is not necessarily true. Think of the case of
Basaia. She's dead, that's for sure. However, if all bloodstones of a god
are reunited, they may rise to power once more.
The bloodstones are the exact stones on which each god stood when they were
destroyed on Deismaar. They give any blooded character with the correct
bloodline extra blood points. They are described in "The Book of Magecraft".
Basaia would be the easiest god on which to perform this. She only has two
such stones. One is a huge sphere. Only a small part of it is missing,
which is in the form of a bracelet or sth. The sphere resides in one of the
last temples of Basaia, in the huge island in the very Northeastern corner
of Cerilia.
It is protected by knights that have experienced the battle of Deismaar and
by the power of the sphere have now got long life.
The small part, is said to be lost in the homeland of the Khinasi.
Now, the whole point is, if these two are reunited, then Basaia will live
again. I have no idea at all about what will happen next, mainly as far as
bloodlines are concerned. I figure the true believers will probably give it
over to their goddess. But my character is virtually the only guy i know
(yeah, i'm no GM -- but my GM talks a lot) that actually believes in an Old
God.
Basaia might demand the bloodlines or may let people who prove themselves
keep them.
What is the point of all this? All Azrai stones are missing as far as I
know. Rhuove used to have 5 i think but they were stolen a 100 years ago or
sth like that. The guy to first find out about bloodstones was the first
lieutenant of the GOrgon, a thief. He gathered all bloodstones that he
could in Deismaar, killed everybody he could with his newfound powers, and
left when the Gorgon threatend to overpower him. What if he has been
stealing all Azrai bloodstones over the years? What if he actually amassed
them all?
Two important assumptions are made. For one, all Azrai bloodstones are
missing. Correct me if i'm wrong. Second, no one has seen this rogue guy
for more than say, 50 yrs.
So, if he gathered them all, then even by accident, Azrai could have
awoken. Then, would he recover his godly status completely? No, because
then Azrai bloodlines would cease to exist. If he did awake as a god, then
he might have let mortals keep their bloodlines. After all, don't Azrai
bloodlines promote the causes of evil? If they were gone, good or neutral
characters would rule Cerilia.
Also, another idea has come to me. What if Azrai could not recover his
godly status completely. What if he needed to make a smoother transition
first -- what if he had possessed this rogue guy and essentially made him
his avatar... the Cold Rider perhaps? Offcourse, this is a rather silly
theory, since the Cold Rider's existed since just before Deismaar (remember
the arrival of halflings). But what if that was yet another avatar of
Azrai? His favorite one perhaps, the one closer to his true nature?
Anyway, I realise this is too far-reaching to have been thought of anybody
but me, including TSR, so it probably is wrong.
;)
Please let me know of your opinions.

Kostis "Joran Aglondier" Hatzitaskos

[JOHN RICKARDS]

> In general i agree. But that is not necessarily true. Think of the case of
> Basaia. She's dead, that's for sure. However, if all bloodstones of a god
> are reunited, they may rise to power once more.
> The bloodstones are the exact stones on which each god stood when they were
> destroyed on Deismaar. They give any blooded character with the correct
> bloodline extra blood points. They are described in "The Book of Magecraft".
> Basaia would be the easiest god on which to perform this. She only has two
> such stones. One is a huge sphere. Only a small part of it is missing,
> which is in the form of a bracelet or sth. The sphere resides in one of the
> last temples of Basaia, in the huge island in the very Northeastern corner
> of Cerilia.
> It is protected by knights that have experienced the battle of Deismaar and
> by the power of the sphere have now got long life.
> The small part, is said to be lost in the homeland of the Khinasi.
> Now, the whole point is, if these two are reunited, then Basaia will live
> again. I have no idea at all about what will happen next, mainly as far as
> bloodlines are concerned. I figure the true believers will probably give it
> over to their goddess. But my character is virtually the only guy i know
> (yeah, i'm no GM -- but my GM talks a lot) that actually believes in an Old
> God.
> Basaia might demand the bloodlines or may let people who prove themselves
> keep them.

Good points, but the reunited stone bringiing Basaia back to life is
only a legend, and might not necessarily be true. She would also be
weakened - since the Basaia bloodlines would still be running around,
so she would not be as powerful.

Basaia's still worshipped in Djapar (the original Basarji homeland),
by the way. Strange, but true.

> What is the point of all this? All Azrai stones are missing as far as I
> know. Rhuove used to have 5 i think but they were stolen a 100 years ago or
> sth like that. The guy to first find out about bloodstones was the first
> lieutenant of the GOrgon, a thief. He gathered all bloodstones that he
> could in Deismaar, killed everybody he could with his newfound powers, and
> left when the Gorgon threatend to overpower him. What if he has been
> stealing all Azrai bloodstones over the years? What if he actually amassed
> them all?
> Two important assumptions are made. For one, all Azrai bloodstones are
> missing. Correct me if i'm wrong. Second, no one has seen this rogue guy
> for more than say, 50 yrs.

The thief is Daryn Theros(?), one of Azrai's lieutenants, who became the
awnsheghlien known as the Diabolyk. He was reportedly killed by the
Gorgon some time ago....

> So, if he gathered them all, then even by accident, Azrai could have
> awoken. Then, would he recover his godly status completely? No, because
> then Azrai bloodlines would cease to exist. If he did awake as a god, then
> he might have let mortals keep their bloodlines. After all, don't Azrai
> bloodlines promote the causes of evil? If they were gone, good or neutral
> characters would rule Cerilia.
> Also, another idea has come to me. What if Azrai could not recover his
> godly status completely. What if he needed to make a smoother transition
> first -- what if he had possessed this rogue guy and essentially made him
> his avatar... the Cold Rider perhaps? Offcourse, this is a rather silly
> theory, since the Cold Rider's existed since just before Deismaar (remember
> the arrival of halflings). But what if that was yet another avatar of
> Azrai? His favorite one perhaps, the one closer to his true nature?
> Anyway, I realise this is too far-reaching to have been thought of anybody
> but me, including TSR, so it probably is wrong.
> ;)
> Please let me know of your opinions.
>
> Kostis "Joran Aglondier" Hatzitaskos
>

Good point about the Cold Rider existing before Deismaar, as well, I
hadn't thought of that.

John Rickards

"He who is looking for something has lost something."
"And he who is not looking?"
"He gets run over."



PS. Dan. Hahahahaha.

[Matthew M. Colville]

>> The obvious answer to the question: Is Azrai Alive is "no."
>>
>> If he were not killed at Deismaar, how could there be scions of his
>>bloodline? The one precludes the other.
>
>In general i agree. But that is not necessarily true. Think of the case of
>Basaia. She's dead, that's for sure. However, if all bloodstones of a god
>are reunited, they may rise to power once more.

Says who? I've got the book of magecraft and I didn't see that
anywhere. What use would a god be whose power was gone? "Hi, I'm Azrai.
I used to be a god, but now my power is spread out amoung thousands of
mortals. Can I spend the night here?"

[Zero]

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