Slow Domain Turn Resolution

[Justin Martin]

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I'm not sure if its just my group or do other people suffer slow domain
turn resolution?

We have 4 players, all of whom are regents. The method of calculation
taxes seems laborious to say the least. Once all them have performed
their taxation, then all the various law holdings held out their hand
for a share of the spoils. All of this just seemed to take a damned long
time.

Has anyone come up with any expeditious ways of doing this aside from
the DM doing it outside the game?

Justin

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[Robert Ripley]

Justin Martin wrote:

> I'm not sure if its just my group or do other people suffer slow
> domain
> turn resolution?
>
> We have 4 players, all of whom are regents. The method of calculation
> taxes seems laborious to say the least. Once all them have performed
> their taxation, then all the various law holdings held out their hand
> for a share of the spoils. All of this just seemed to take a damned
> long
> time.
>
> Has anyone come up with any expeditious ways of doing this aside from
> the DM doing it outside the game?
>
> Justin
>
yeah make the Law Holdings "taxes" on Guilds and Temples be a not so
nice act to punish unruly Guilders and Templars. Say it is an uncommon
thing to do.Tell em to use it only when they do not like the particular
regent.
- --

Bob R.

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[Eric Beaudoin]

At 10:20 1997.05.16 +1000, Justin Martin wrote:
>I'm not sure if its just my group or do other people suffer slow domain
>turn resolution?
>
>We have 4 players, all of whom are regents. The method of calculation
>taxes seems laborious to say the least. Once all them have performed
>their taxation, then all the various law holdings held out their hand
>for a share of the spoils. All of this just seemed to take a damned long
>time.
>
>Has anyone come up with any expeditious ways of doing this aside from
>the DM doing it outside the game?

The group in which I play works this way: Everybody is responsible for provinces and holdings taxation that they own. The law claims against the holdings is done by the players which own the holding. In case where a holding is not owned by any player, the PC who owns the law holding make both the holding and the law claims roll.

This way, we can all do the rolls without anybody assistance. When it's all done, we just tell each other the relevant numbers. I play Endier and got a lot of rolling to do (16 holdings and 2 provinces). I usually manage to get going in under 5 minutes. For me, it was just a case of getting organize.

Best
- ----
Eric Beaudoin
Groupe conseil DMR inc.
(514) 877-3301

[Robert Ripley]

David Sean Brown wrote:

> > Well first of all unless you are the vassal guilder for a nation
> that
> > "king" is not your
> > king. He does not rule you he just happens to own the property
> around
> > your guilds.
>
> As a matter of fact, the "King" is the ruler of ALL things which fall
> within his domain. He doesn't mearly own the land, but commands the
> subjects who live within his country. If he wanted to, he can seize
> any
> or all of the assets or the business itself. (Of course, this sort of
>
> thing is generally frowned upon, leading to rebellious subjects,
> unless it
> was for a good reason.) The King is the "supreme ruler" of his relam,
> and
> everybody living in it is subject to his commands.

> This does, of couse,
> presume a solely monarchial society, and a ruler powerful enough to
> enforce his decisions.

I agree with you if the ruler was powerful enough... but say Medoere,
for instance,they would/should have quite a tough time telling OT or SG
to give up tax money

> > > The rulers of nations in Birthright have a lot of power and to
> allow
> > them to take
> > from the guilders and templars who are not their subjects just makes
>
> > them worse.
>
> What do you mean "makes thgem worse"? More powerful? Isn't that what
> a
> ruler of a realm should be? It is by being able to either use or work
>
> with these other people in your realm that makes a more powerful
> ruler.

No... There should be a parity between Guilders and Templars and Nation
Rulers I agree with the statement of working with the other regents in
your realm.
Much better to have them on your side than to be stealing their money
with
your law claims.

> >
> > If you can not picture the poor king controlled by a rich merchant I
>
> > would suggest
> > reading the Spider's Test. It gives a very clear example of what
> should
> > be the
> > power structure of Anuire.
>
> This is exactly why rulers should have the ability to take what they
> need
> from guilders and temples to rule their countries efficienty.
>
The Nation Rulers do not have the ability to take what they need. They
can juststeal a few Gold Bars with Law Claims. That would piss me off as
a guilder.

> > The king basically asks permission of the Guilder to allow land to
> be
> > added to his domain.
> > And the guilder denied permission because the expansion would give
> power
> > over a river
> > to the king.
> >
> > basically If you are a powerful king you should demand a tax from
> the
> > guilders in your domain.
> > say 1 GB per temple or guild owned. Save the claims by law holdings
> for
> > added punishment.
> > And if the guilders are bigger than you I would lay off because any
> > desent DM would have
> > the Guilders or Templars give the king a swift kick in the a$$.
>
> Any decent DM would also make sure there is some way the poor king has
> a
> chance to regain power in his own land, either through alliances,
> improvement in reputation, or an event which requires the (assumed) PC
>
> regent's personal help...
>
You have more of a Nation Ruler emphasis. Which I guess is ok If you
don't likevariety. But I am more concerned about playing in a more
realistic game where
guilders or templars just might actually be more powerful than a nation
ruler.
(Oh No! Get a rope!)
- --

Bob R.
- -The Anti-Birthright-

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[David Sean Brown]

Actually, when I was referring to the powers a King has at their disposal,
I was referring to law holdings and their ability to garner even a few GBs
for the King. I do like to other types of regents just as much, but I was
trying to defend the rulers right to use his law holdings to help support
his kingdom. I felt there was a lot of opposition to this small ability,
so I thought I would toss in my 2 cents worth and take the other side :)

Sean

[Kariu@aol.co]

A thong to remember with Law claims is that the ruler is not stealing
anything the the guilders or the temples....It is his legal right to tax the
area...

Put it in modern terms....the Province of New York is taxed...by federal
income taxes.and then the guilders are taxed by sales tax and the temples are
taxed by property taxes(where applicable)...

It's not stealing, but fully accepted and sanctioned. That's how Law
holdings do work. Perhaps an agreement could be ironed out between the
holdings and the law...an -- average amount of tax..or something...not being
charged by Law holding isn't fair to the regent of the land...but it would be
'ideal' for the guilders and the like.

Think of it in this way. Your Guilds and Temples are on his land. You are
just paying rent....Regent law claims....



With respect,

Kariu

[Robert Ripley]

Kariu@aol.com wrote:

> A thong to remember with Law claims is that the ruler is not stealing
> anything the the guilders or the temples....It is his legal right to
> tax the
> area...

just cause he can doesn't make it right

> Put it in modern terms....the Province of New York is taxed...by
> federal
> income taxes.and then the guilders are taxed by sales tax and the
> temples are
> taxed by property taxes(where applicable)...

No... Companies in the real world are different from Birthright
Guilders, You don't think of the Spider River traders as Roesonian.
Because they aren't. They are seperate entities. If Roesone started
STEALing the money I earned for no reason other than they can I would
give him a swift kick in the a$$.

> It's not stealing, but fully accepted and sanctioned. That's how Law
> holdings do work. Perhaps an agreement could be ironed out between
> the
> holdings and the law...an -- average amount of tax..or something...not
> being
> charged by Law holding isn't fair to the regent of the land...but it
> would be
> 'ideal' for the guilders and the like.
>
> Think of it in this way. Your Guilds and Temples are on his land.
> You are
> just paying rent....Regent law claims....

To do that you had better be bigger than the guilder or templar and I
wouldn't expect any favours from those that you are taking from.

- --

Bob R.

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PBeM- Birthright, Regents of the Southern Marches
http://home.earthlink.net/~bobripley/index.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~bobripley/page3.html
bobripley@earthlink.net
************************************************** *****************************

[David Sean Brown]

> > Put it in modern terms....the Province of New York is taxed...by
> > federal
> > income taxes.and then the guilders are taxed by sales tax and the
> > temples are
> > taxed by property taxes(where applicable)...
>
> No... Companies in the real world are different from Birthright
> Guilders, You don't think of the Spider River traders as Roesonian.
> Because they aren't. They are seperate entities. If Roesone started
> STEALing the money I earned for no reason other than they can I would
> give him a swift kick in the a$$.

How exactly are they different. A company operating within the limits of
a countries boarders pays taxes to the ruler if they declare it. If you
don't like it, yo0u always have the option to leave. And don't forget, in
order to give the regent a "kick in the a$$" you need an army.
Unfortunately for the guilds and temples, unless you own your own land,
you cannot raise an army without the permission of the ruler of the land.
ou could try to raise on in a neighboring country, but they then run the
risk of being seen as colaborating with the guild...looks like the forst
countries allies would have a pretty good reason to invade. And don't
forget he other guilds seeing this as a good opportunity to get rid of
this "offensively minded" guild, by offering their support to the
defending relam. Just because you have money, doesn't make yuo more
powerful (it helps, but it isn't the only thing)

>
> > It's not stealing, but fully accepted and sanctioned. That's how Law
> > holdings do work. Perhaps an agreement could be ironed out between
> > the
> > holdings and the law...an -- average amount of tax..or something...not
> > being
> > charged by Law holding isn't fair to the regent of the land...but it
> > would be
> > 'ideal' for the guilders and the like.
> >
> > Think of it in this way. Your Guilds and Temples are on his land.
> > You are
> > just paying rent....Regent law claims....
>
> To do that you had better be bigger than the guilder or templar and I
> wouldn't expect any favours from those that you are taking from.

So you suggest letting the temple/guild work in your realm, making money
off your subjects, and not take anything from them? That's crap, and no
ruler would do it, unless they had no other choice...bigger isn't better,
and if you have allies, magic or anything else to back you at all, you
should colect what you are due. I'm not suggesting taxing them to death,
but take a fair share for the ruler of the realm.

Sean B