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  1. #1
    Senior Member Thomas_Percy's Avatar
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    This is a question or invite for talk about domain rules, so I put it in BRCS comments/discussion.

    ILIEN or Endier or City of Anuire.
    City or Metropolis.

    Tens of thousands of inhabitants, hundreds of full time city guards, thousands of militia, high level spellcasters, miles of courtain walls, about 100 towers, a few barbicans, siege machines*.
    In a Brt system 70.000 Ilien is a province with a castle X. I can conquer it in a 1 war move if I have enough artillery.

    &
    Economic matters. Ilien is a greatest sea-port of South. & East. Coast. It's a natural destination of 90% trade routes of this land and a gate for wide world.
    In a Brt system it's a province level X.
    Richest than typical 4/1 eg. Fairfield, but not enough rich to be compared to medieval Venice, Genoa, Amsterdam - crossroads of all trade, sometimes city states.

    What can I do with Ilien, to make it a real jewel of the Anuire, not a ridiculous weak "bigger village"?

    * in my setting: monsters, a lot of Symbols, Glyphs, and Permanent Teleportation Circle Harbor.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    What can I do with Ilien, to make it a real jewel of the Anuire, not a ridiculous weak "bigger village"?
    Keep building it up.

    What Ilien needs to become great, is what it has least. Money.

    In my campaign, Rogr Aglondier adopted an heir, Osric (a PC), who became the next Count of Ilien. Osric died in a battle with an awnshegh assassin, the Displacer, who was trying to kill Laela Flaertes (the illustrious duchess of Tuornen).

    Osric died with no heir - and so the land of Ilien chose its next heir: Yanos Mannfred, the reigning guilder of the Port of Call Exchange (headquartered in Ilien, where it enjoys a commerical monopoly). Yanos, a Brecht man, was the chosen heir of El-Hadid, whose own sons were long dead or gone.

    When Yanos became Count of Ilien, the ledgers stopped ending in pitiful sums. Ilien's expenses were easily supported by the PCE's lucrative guild and trade network.

    All those groaning expenses that Aglondier and Osric had suffered under became viewed for the powerful assets they could be. With wealth and regency behind them, expensive things like shipyards, courts, and expert retainers can be used to their full potential. Once it had the money behind L7 shipyards, the galleons started cranking out, and within a few seasons Diemed's navy didn't look so tough after all...

    All of it feeds into finding one way or another to have a steady, dependable flow of income. Back up your holdings with a strong bloodline.

    A minor bloodline in Ilien helps to insure its relative weakness. A regent with a stronger bloodline would really help Ilien be a more equal partner with his allies. If Rogr had a stronger bloodline, he could better compete for sources, which would make him stronger in many ways (potent realm spells, more RP, virtual guilds).

    One of the advantages of Yanos becoming count was that he had a great bloodline, one slowly becoming stronger as he expanded his guild network through southern and eastern Anuire (and bloodthefted a few enemies in his time...but those are other stories).

    The best thing that happened later was when Yanos conceived the Ilien Trade Exchange. This is a great trade and commerce wonder, one that kept increasing the value and number of trade routes to and from Ilien, as well as local income.

    Over a few years' time, Yanos ruled Ilien to a 10/0 province. That by itself is a dramatic achievement.

    A level 10 province with one or more wonders (later a Rogues Guild and Bardic College were built in Ilien IMC) in it is a pretty good representation of a "Jewel of Anuire." It begins to rival, and in a few ways surpass, the Imperial City.

    As the new rise, the old fall...or is it the other way around? :huh:

  3. #3
    Senior Member Thomas_Percy's Avatar
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    Thanks Osprey for interesting story.
    Especially awnshegh Displacer fascinated me... can You write more about him?

    Indeed, money and regency can help.
    I'm looking for some system solutions, for example:
    - rule that makes it profitable for guilders from neighbouring realms to connect trade routes from all over Roesone, Medoere, Ghoere to Ilien.
    - rule that makes big, big cities harder to conquer (for reasons see my above post), harder than any other developed and fortified in hurry provinces

  4. #4
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    Especially awnshegh Displacer fascinated me... can You write more about him?
    IMC Mheallie Bireon (Cariele, etc.) is secretly an awnshegh (the Medusa) pretending she's still human when she must. She has a major bloodline of Azrai. She also has a brother, Evan, who was also gifted with that bloodline. While Mheallie has forged her guild empire, her brother has followed a more personal path to power. He advanced as a rogue and later an assassin, mostly freelancing plus doing semi-regular missions for his sister.

    Evan had some wierd quirks: as he got better at what he did, he bloodthefted a number of scions, and came to be obsessed with finding and acquiring magic items and artwork. These became the 2 main forms of payment he accepted for missions, as well as motivators for his own adventures.

    Eventually bloodtheft raised his bloodline from major to great, which hastened his transformation into an awnshegh. He also had some level of long life, which meant he had been doing this for a long time.

    When the PC's first encountered him (in Tuornen), he was a 14th level character (rogue/assassin/scion) who was largely evolved into the Displacer. In his true form, he had developed many of the characteristics of a displacer beast: 2 large barbed tentacle arms had grown from behind his shoulders, his skin had darkened to a dusky gray with midnight black eyes (and hardened to leathery toughness, giving him some natural armor), his strength, speed, and durability had increased, and most recently he had acquired the actual displacement ability...hence the awnshegh name, Displacer.

    One of the nastiest villains I ever designed...especially armed with a wounding rapier that was bane vs. scions, and a dagger of subtlety in his left hand. Brecht-style fencing (2-weapon fighting and defense), incredible stealth abilities, and a very cunning mind all stacked up to make the Displacer one of the most dangerous awnshegh in Anuire.


    Re. Ilien and Endier: I wouldn't compare these cities too directly with the City of Anuire. The Imperial City is a 10/0 urban province unto itself. Ilien is a 7/0 province, Endier 6/0. These are small cities by medieval standards, but the City of Anuire is the only real Cerilian "metropolis" in 551 MR.
    It's like comparing Constantinople to London...apples and oranges.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Thomas_Percy's Avatar
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    I will use The Displacer at one of the following games.
    He will be a grand master of Dark Moon Cult (sth. like Eyes Wide Shut movie).
    Black Moon Sodality

    I must do a stats for him for level maximum 8 with a template of shade. I appreciate any adviced, ideas and help.

    That's underlings of The Displacer.

    Devlyn, Mistrz Kultu Czarnego Księżyca: Male Shade, Half-elf Wiz5/Sha2; Medium Humanoid; CR 9;
    HD 7d4+7; hp 26 [In darkness: hp 33];
    Init +6; Spd 30 ft/x4[In darkness: Spd 50 ft/x4];
    AC 13 (+2 dex, +1 armor), touch 12, flat-footed 11;
    In darkness: AC 17 (+2 dex, +1 armor, +4 deflection), touch 16, flat-footed 15;
    Full Atk +3 (1d4; 19-20/x2, Dagger),
    +5 (1d4; 19-20/x2, Dagger[Thrown]);
    In darkness: Full Atk +5 (1d4+2; 19-20/x2, Dagger),
    +5 (1d4+2; 19-20/x2, Dagger[Thrown]);
    SA: Control Light (Sp): 70% reduce enemy sight distance;
    SQ: SR 19; Mind Blank [jako tatuaż księżycowy], Permanency [+1 resistance bonus on saves (included)], Permanent Image [Devlyn nie wygląda na shade], Clone, Low-Light Vision, Fast Healing (Ex): 2; Invisibility (Sp): at will; Shadesight (Sp): see in Darkness 60ft.; Shadow Image (Sp): Mirror Image 3/day; Shadow Stride (Sp): Dimension Door as a move action every 2 rds;
    AL CE; SV Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +8 [Immunity to sleep, +10 vs Enchantment];
    In darkness: SV Fort +8, Ref +8, Will +12 [Immunity to sleep, +14 vs Enchantment];
    Str 10(+0), Dex 14(+2), Con 12(+1), Int 17(+3), Wis 10(+0), Cha 15(+2);
    In darkness: Str 10(+0), Dex 14(+2), Con 14(+2), Int 17(+3), Wis 10(+0), Cha 17(+3);
    Skills: Bluff +7, Concentration +11, Hide +13, Knowledge (arcana) +11, Listen +7, Move Silently +9, Ride +4, Spellcraft +13, Spot +4.
    In darkness: Skills: Bluff +8, Concentration +12, Hide +21, Knowledge (arcana) +11, Listen +11, Move Silently +17, Ride +4, Spellcraft +13, Spot +8.
    Feats: Improved Initiative, Spell Penetration, Silent Spell, Shadow Weave Magic, Alertness, Scribe Scroll, Insidious Magic, Pernicious Magic, Tenacious Magic
    Spellbook: 0—OOOO—DC13[+1 Shadow Weave]— Detect Poison, Detect Magic, Daze, Ray of Frost,
    1st— OOOOO—DC14[+1 Shadow Weave]— Alarm, Shield, Mage Armor, True Strike, Charm Person, Sleep, Magic Missile, Disguise Self, Expeditious Retreat,
    2nd— OOOO—DC15[+1 Shadow Weave]— Obscure Object, Web, Detect Thoughts, Locate Object, See Invisibility, Hideous Laughter, Darkness, Gust of Wind, Blindness/Deafness, Fox’s Cunning, Rope Trick,
    3rd—OOO—DC16[+1 Shadow Weave]— Dispel Magic, Phantom Steed, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Tongues, Deep Slumber, Suggestion, Lightning Bolt, Displacement, Invisibility Sphere, Vampiric Touch, Fly, Gaseous Form,
    4rd—O—DC17[+1 Shadow Weave]—Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Black Tentacles, Locate Creature, Scrying, Charm Monster, Greater Invisibility, Phantasmal Killer, Animate Dead,
    Possessions: Brooch of Shielding, Robe+1 with abilities of Armor of Shadow & Silent Moves (10,000gp), Bag Of Holding Type I, Everburning Torch (but with Darkness), Potions & Oils: Cure Moderate Wounds, Gentle Repose; Light Warhorse, mapy portali do Świata Cienia, butelka krwi niziołków, 500gp,
    Familiar: Shadow Bat, AC19 (touch 16, flat-footed 17), hp16, Atk Incorporeal touch +10 (1d6 Str), SA & SQ: Darkvision 60 ft., incorporeal traits, +2 turn resistance, undead traits, Share spells, Empathic link, Deliver touch spells, Speak with master, Blindsense 20 ft., Low-light vision, SV Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +9, Skills: Hide +20, Move Silently +6,
    Strength Damage (Su): The touch of a shadow deals 1d6 points of Strength damage to a living foe. A creature reduced to Strength 0 by a shadow dies. This is a negative energy effect.
    Create Spawn (Su): Any humanoid reduced to Strength 0 by a shadow becomes a shadow under the control of its killer within 1d4 rounds.
    Improved evasion

    Shannena, Mistrzyni Kultu Czarnego Księżyca: Female Shade Human Brd6; Medium Humanoid; CR 8;
    HD 6d6; hp 23[In darkness: hp 29];
    Init +6; Spd 30 ft/x4[In darkness: Spd 50 ft/x4];
    AC 16 (+4 armor, +2 dex), touch 12, flat-footed 14;
    In darkness: AC 20 (+4 armor, +2 dex, +4 deflection), touch 16, flat-footed 18;
    Full Atk +6 (1d6-1+poison DC18 or 1d6/1d6 Dex; 18-20/x2, Rapier),
    +6 (1d8+poison DC18 or 1d6/1d6 Dex; 19-20/x2, Light Crossbow);
    In darkness: Full Atk +6 (1d6+1+poison DC18 or 1d6/1d6 Dex; 18-20/x2, Rapier),
    +6 (1d8+poison DC18 or 1d6/1d6 Dex; 19-20/x2, Light Crossbow);
    SA: Control Light (Sp): 60% reduce enemy sight distance;
    SQ: SR 18; Mind Blank [jako tatuaż księżycowy], Permanency [+1 resistance bonus on saves (included)], Permanent Image [Shannena nie wygląda na shade], Clone, Fast Healing (Ex): 2; Invisibility (Sp): at will; Shadesight (Sp): see in Darkness 60ft.; Shadow Image (Sp): Mirror Image 3/day; Bardic Knowledge(Ex): 1d20+8;
    AL CN; SV Fort +3, Ref +8, Will +6;
    In darkness: SV Fort +8, Ref +12, Will +10;
    Str 8(-1), Dex 14(+2), Con 10(+0), Int 14(+2), Wis 10(+0), Cha 19(+4);
    In darkness: Str 8(-1), Dex 14(+2), Con 12(+1), Int 14(+2), Wis 10(+0), Cha 21(+5);
    Skills: Bluff +13, Concentration +9, Knowledge (local) +11, Listen +6, Perform (harp) +13, Ride +3, Sense Motive +9, Sleight of Hand +13, Spellcraft +5, Spot +3, Use Magic Device +13.
    In darkness: Skills: Bluff +14, Concentration +10, Hide +11, Knowledge (local) +11, Listen +10, Move Silently +11, Perform (harp) +14, Ride +3, Sense Motive +9, Sleight of Hand +13, Spellcraft +3, Spot +7, Use Magic Device +14.
    Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Counterspell, Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
    Spells: 0—OOO—DC14—Daze, Detect Magic, Lullaby,
    1st— OOOO—DC15—Alarm, Charm Person, Disguise Self, Hideous Laughter,
    2nd— OOOO—DC16—Animal Messenger, Blindness/Deafness, Invisibility, Silence, Sound Burst,
    Possessions: Mithral Chain Shirt, Wand of Cure Light Wounds, Pearl of Power (2nd-level), Amulet of Laeral’s Tears (jednorazówka:+24 hp), Travel Cloak (Endure Elements, termos/lodówka, namiot), Everburning Torch (but with Darkness), Potions & Oils: Cure Moderate Wounds, Elixir of Love; Light Warhorse, Giant wasp poison (Injury DC18 or 1d6/1d6 Dex), 500gp,
    Bardic Music: 6/day:
    Countersong(Su): You can counter any sonic or language-dependent magical effect. Anyone within 30 feet can use your Perform check in place of their saving throw. You can maintain a countersong for 10 rounds.
    Fascinate(Sp): You can fascinate 2 creature(s) within 90 feet. If you beat their Will save with a Perform check, they will listen quietly for up to 6 rounds.
    Inspire Courage(Su): While singing, all allies who can hear you gain a +1 morale bonus to saving throws against charm and fear effects, and a +1 morale bonus to attack and weapon damage rolls. The effect lasts as long as you sing plus 5 rounds.
    Inspire Competence(Su): You can help an ally succeed at a task. They get a +2 competence bonus to skill checks as long as they are able to see and hear you and are within 30 feet. This can be maintained for 2 minutes.
    Suggestion(Sp): You can make a suggestion (as the spell) to a creature you have already fascinated. Will save (DC 18 negates).

  6. #6
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas_Percy
    Tens of thousands of inhabitants, hundreds of full time city guards, thousands of militia, high level spellcasters, miles of courtain walls, about 100 towers, a few barbicans, siege machines*.
    In a Brt system 70.000 Ilien is a province with a castle X. I can conquer it in a 1 war move if I have enough artillery.
    This is true with any city, no matter the size. Bring in enough troops, artiliary etc, and be prepared to lose them, then you can take a city. The fortifications help, but do not prevent a determined invader. After all, a wall can be as long as you like, it only needs one small breech to allow the invaders into the city.

    Economic matters. Ilien is a greatest sea-port of South. & East. Coast. It's a natural destination of 90% trade routes of this land and a gate for wide world.
    In a Brt system it's a province level X.
    Richest than typical 4/1 eg. Fairfield, but not enough rich to be compared to medieval Venice, Genoa, Amsterdam - crossroads of all trade, sometimes city states.
    I would say that Ilien is somewhat overshadowed by the nearby presence of the Imperial City which is the true natural destination of trade routes. However, one thing you may wish to do is allow the old system of 3 land routes and 3 sea trade routes. Also, with the alteration to the shipyard rule, Ilien becomes one of only 5 provinces in Anuire capable of building galleons and everyone needs new ships.

    For its guilder and temple regents it is a very rich province, but for the count he isn't as wealthy as he only controls one province. All city states suffer from this problem, but still with some taxes on guilds, Ilien can stand on its own quite nicely.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Thomas_Percy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raesene Andu
    This is true with any city, no matter the size. Bring in enough troops, artiliary etc, and be prepared to lose them, then you can take a city. The fortifications help, but do not prevent a determined invader. After all, a wall can be as long as you like, it only needs one small breech to allow the invaders into the city.
    Muster Troops action is a bad rule, because it is based on abstract - province level, not on population.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raesene Andu
    I would say that Ilien is somewhat overshadowed by the nearby presence of the Imperial City which is the true natural destination of trade routes. However, one thing you may wish to do is allow the old system of 3 land routes and 3 sea trade routes. Also, with the alteration to the shipyard rule, Ilien becomes one of only 5 provinces in Anuire capable of building galleons and everyone needs new ships.
    Medieval historical cities like Venice, Genoa, Milan, Florence and Rome were not so far away from each other and every ono was a city-state.
    Italy1494
    Trade route system is not perfect, too.
    And this galleons' shipyards... in the world of Permanent Teleportation Cirlces are not so powerful as in a real world.

  8. #8
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas_Percy
    And this galleons' shipyards... in the world of Permanent Teleportation Cirlces are not so powerful as in a real world.
    I wouldn't allow permanent teleportation circles in my Birthright game as it doesn't seem a very BR type of thing. In fact, as my PCs have learned, teleporting of any kind is dangerous, you could end up trapped in the Shadow World and hunted by giant shadow dogs, or trapped in an illusionary prison by an evil fairy, or arrive in the middle of an undead army on the march.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

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