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  1. #1
    Jan P. M. Arnoldus
    Guest

    Birthright Provincialborders

    Here I am again. This time I had a question about the provincial
    borders. In Holland there has lately been a discussion about a
    restructuring of the provincial borders. It's main concern was the
    construction of city provinces and rural provinces. If you look at
    birghtright one could also ask some questions in this fashion.
    Should a player character be allowed to divide his province in two
    or more different provinces?
    When he did this he probably would collect more population regency
    points (a 3 province wih 10.000pop becomes two 2 provinces with
    5.000pop) and it would be possible to collect more magic regency
    since the source rating could become higher.
    The rulebook says that the regency is collected due to a tie between
    the regent and the land and its people.
    You could say that the mebhaighl that infuses the land also
    demarcates the boundries of the different provinces, which boundries
    would therefore be almost immutable.
    Any thoughts on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

    Jan Anoldus 080768ja@student.eur.nl
    ************************************************** ******************
    Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and
    the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on
    the winds of time.
    (Charal Drianaan te Calamon, The Cycle of the Dragon)

  2. #2
    swords
    Guest

    Birthright Provincialborders

    At 01:46 PM 3/12/97 -0800, you wrote:

    >When he did this he probably would collect more population regency
    >points (a 3 province wih 10.000pop becomes two 2 provinces with
    >5.000pop) and it would be possible to collect more magic regency
    >since the source rating could become higher.

    No the province rating would still be equal to what had been in place
    before. The tax and all other holding would be split between the two in
    equal portions. The main good thing would be that now the regent would have
    an additional province that he could build up and fortify to gain more money
    and regency.

    >You could say that the mebhaighl that infuses the land also
    >demarcates the boundries of the different provinces, which boundries
    >would therefore be almost immutable.

    The land is still the same land so the mebhaighl would be split because you
    only have access to a certain amount of magic in a given area. But in the
    same token it could be allowed to build back up to its potential for that area.

    Michael

  3. #3
    swords
    Guest

    Birthright Provincialborders

    >So you claim that if I have a 7/x province which I divide into seven
    >different provinces that I then will have seven 7/* provinces. This seems
    >to me to be absurd. As I see it the rating of the province should be
    >divieded as the population is divieded over the new provinces.
    >My remark about the mebhaighl demarcating the boundry of the provinces
    >and thus making them immutable was made to make it more realistic that
    >the provinces have maxpopulation rate tied to the terrain and not the
    >size of the province.
    >As I said earlier, when you split an existing province into parts it
    >should be impossible that each part of the original province can be ruled
    >up to the same maximum as the original one.
    >At least in this setting.
    >If the players came up with highrises, intensive bio-industry and other
    >innovations I might allow something.

    Looks like I typed that badly. I'll try to write it a bit clearer.
    The way I play you could divide a provice only when it was at 4/* or better
    and it would then be 2/* and 2/*. With your 7/* it would become a 4/* and a
    3/*. You could still have a large population in the same area even if it
    was the stonecrown mountains. You would just have to work harder at it, for
    my PC's I would make the expense more. The cost to rule up a mountain
    province being like twice or three times as difficult, the reason being that
    you have to convince people to live there. If they have dense forest you
    cut back the forest for housing space, Swamps would have to be drained,
    mountains terraced similar to what the Inca's did in the Andies Mountains.

    Michael

  4. #4
    cbalow@cannet.co
    Guest

    Birthright Provincialborders

    >Looks like I typed that badly. I'll try to write it a bit clearer.
    >The way I play you could divide a provice only when it was at 4/* or better
    >and it would then be 2/* and 2/*. With your 7/* it would become a 4/* and a
    >3/*. You could still have a large population in the same area even if it
    >was the stonecrown mountains. You would just have to work harder at it, for
    >my PC's I would make the expense more. The cost to rule up a mountain
    >province being like twice or three times as difficult, the reason being that
    >you have to convince people to live there. If they have dense forest you
    >cut back the forest for housing space, Swamps would have to be drained,
    >mountains terraced similar to what the Inca's did in the Andies Mountains.
    >
    >Michael
    >

    Hi, this is the first time I've put up a post here. I've been thinking about
    this subject myself recently. I think it important to look at the one
    example(that I know of) of what may be province splitting in the book, The
    city of Anuire. Perhaps it might be conceivable to split a province once it
    reaches a very large population(like a 9 or 10 rating). You would then split
    it into a large city much like Anuire, making sure to split the province so
    that you are left with a large city and a rural province( a 10 might go into
    a 7 and a 3) Citys would no doubt have no magic source to them, and the
    country side would be able to eventually recover its magic(if appropriate).
    Perhaps using a form of investiture to effect a change in a province would
    be interesting. I would be in favor of limiting this to happening once in a
    province.
    I'd like to hear what everyone thinks about this idea.

    Chris

  5. #5
    Jan P. M. Arnoldus
    Guest

    Birthright Provincialborders

    Okay guys, I'm sorry for the flippant address in my first message, the
    trouble was that I had just sent another message introducing myself. This
    message didn't get through somehow.

    On Wed, 12 Mar 1997, Michael wrote:

    > At 01:46 PM 3/12/97 -0800, you wrote:
    >
    > >When he did this he probably would collect more population regency
    > >points (a 3 province wih 10.000pop becomes two 2 provinces with
    > >5.000pop) and it would be possible to collect more magic regency
    > >since the source rating could become higher.
    >
    > No the province rating would still be equal to what had been in place
    > before. The tax and all other holding would be split between the two in
    > equal portions. The main good thing would be that now the regent would have
    > an additional province that he could build up and fortify to gain more money
    > and regency.
    >
    > >You could say that the mebhaighl that infuses the land also
    > >demarcates the boundries of the different provinces, which boundries
    > >would therefore be almost immutable.
    >
    > The land is still the same land so the mebhaighl would be split because you
    > only have access to a certain amount of magic in a given area. But in the
    > same token it could be allowed to build back up to its potential for that area.
    >
    > Michael
    So you claim that if I have a 7/x province which I divide into seven
    different provinces that I then will have seven 7/* provinces. This seems
    to me to be absurd. As I see it the rating of the province should be
    divieded as the population is divieded over the new provinces.
    My remark about the mebhaighl demarcating the boundry of the provinces
    and thus making them immutable was made to make it more realistic that
    the provinces have maxpopulation rate tied to the terrain and not the
    size of the province.
    As I said earlier, when you split an existing province into parts it
    should be impossible that each part of the original province can be ruled
    up to the same maximum as the original one.
    At least in this setting.
    If the players came up with highrises, intensive bio-industry and other
    innovations I might allow something.

    Greetings Jan Arnoldus 080768ja@student.eur.nl
    ************************************************** **********************
    O Light of the Heavens, Light of the World, let the Promised One be born
    of the mountain, as he was in ages past and will be in ages to come.
    (Charal Drianaan te Calamon, the Cycle of the Dragon)

  6. #6
    TSRRich@aol.co
    Guest

    Birthright Provincialborders

    In a message dated 97-03-13 19:43:16 EST, you write:

    >>Looks like I typed that badly. I'll try to write it a bit clearer.
    >>The way I play you could divide a provice only when it was at 4/* or better
    >>and it would then be 2/* and 2/*. With your 7/* it would become a 4/* and
    a
    >>3/*. You could still have a large population in the same area even if it
    >>was the stonecrown mountains. You would just have to work harder at it,
    for
    >>my PC's I would make the expense more. The cost to rule up a mountain
    >>province being like twice or three times as difficult, the reason being
    that
    >>you have to convince people to live there. If they have dense forest you
    >>cut back the forest for housing space, Swamps would have to be drained,
    >>mountains terraced similar to what the Inca's did in the Andies Mountains.
    >>
    >>Michael

    I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything about this topic in the BR Rules Book,
    so if you want a shoot-from-the-hip answer, here's my read on the subject.
    Total up the source potential and province level--this is the number that
    must be allocated. You couldn't take a 7/0 and make it into seven 1/6
    provinces...this would take 7 points worth of potential and multiply it into
    42 points. However, I might consider it reasonable to divvy that 7/0 into a
    5/0 and a 1/1, for the city and countryside. You still have 7 points of
    "stuff", so you didn't make magical potential appear out of nowhere--you had
    to take it on the chin in the total province level to pull this off. I'd also
    say that /any/ regent with a holding in the province to be divided can block
    the division, unless his holding is contested.

    Keep in mind, ruling lots of little territories instead of one big one is
    extremely inefficient from the domain maintenance standpoint. The only real
    advantage to splitting provinces this way would be to provide more
    territories for an enemy to have to traverse or occupy in an invasion.

    Rich Baker
    Birthright Designer

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