Rodger Leeder wrote:
> First of all, if you have taken the time to think about what alignment
> you are, you need to get out more.=20

Whoah. I'm sorry, I didn't think those 6 seconds and two neurons it
took were so valuable.

> I suspect you CATEGORIZED=A0yourself just to be objectionable
> and not to add anything new to the discussion.=20

You may suspect anything you wish, but I am the only person here
qualified to comment on what I was actually doing.

> To slip into pure geek
> mode for a moment here, if you were CG or LN or whatever, I or anyone
> else would have a pretty good idea on how you'd react to any given
> situation. Is anyone that simple? I don't think so.=A0

First of all, my whole point is that alignment simply doesn't work the
way you think it does. In other words, being any given alignment
*doesn't* mean everyone can accurately predict your behavior in every
given instance.
Secondly, anyone who knows me well has a pretty good idea how I'd react
in any given situation. And since it'd take someone who knew me pretty
well to figure out what alignment I'd be were I an AD&D character, then
it seems alignment is works pretty well.
Lastly, have you ever taken an Ethics class? =20

> As far as who can use what magic item, etc - think of the intent of
> the item! Does an item heal others? Chances are, it's probably created
> with good intentions. Is an item created to defend the user against
> poison? Chances are it's neutrally 'aligned'. After all, poison is
> poison whether you just saved an old woman from an Orog attack or
> killed a person in cold blood. What's the difference?

The point is, you, as a GM who doesn't use alignment, can't decide
whether or not a 'good' aligned iten would work for any of players
because they might act good sometimes, and bad other times.

> As far as me badly understanding alignment - you're absolutely right!

Well, maybe you should try to figure it out what it is and how it works
before you decide whether it's a good thing.

> I think it's stupid!

But you *just agreed* that you understood it badly! It doesn't seem to
much of a stretch to then think that, perhaps, you should try to
understand it well. In fact, isn't it *likely* that anyone who didn't
understand it would think it was stupid?

> It's good for beginning players who need little
> nudges to role-play, but in advanced campaigns it becomes unnecessary.

Alignment has as much to do with role-playing as Strength, Dex, and Con

> If you don't know who the Pope is (or Charles Manson, or Mother
> Theresa) you need to read AD&D stuff less and keep up with real
> current events more.

Jesus christ, are you being delibrately obtuse? I said that I didn't
*know* them, not that I had never heard of them or didn't know *of*
them! Are you trying to contrast yourself by claiming you *do* know the
Pope? You hang out with him and play cards and eat pizza? The question
was; is it possible to determine someone's alignment and the example
used was the Pope. My point is, and it's a pretty good one, you can't
know something like that without knowing the person well. I have never,
ever met the Pope and it's not likely that I will. Does this surprise

> I don't want to hear how you have a PHD in
> political science, I'm making a vaild point.=20

In fact, you're not. I believe it is possible to dissapprove
intelligently of the idea of alignment, but you're not doing it. You
blew any chance of dissapproving intelligently when you both admitted
you didn't understand alignment well *and* didn't like it. Your
admitted lack of understanding invalidates the worth of any opinion you
might have on the subject.

> I have been playing AD&D=A0since 1986, and still need to use the rule
> books. I have no clue what the MV of a dwarf is - I STILL have to
> look. They've never been important - the play's the thing! I don't
> need rules to have fun - my players have never complained either!

So why are you playing AD&D at all? I'm serious about this, if you
value your ignorance of the system so much (as it certainly seems you
do) what function does it serve to you? You don't know the rules, you
don't care, neither do you players, and everyone has fun. . .so what are
you using the rules for?
> It's just a game, after all (it's not like we're arguing about BEER=A0o=
> anything serious like that . . :-)

I could be wrong but I think it's at least possible to have an
intelligent discussion about alignment. Possible to understand it and
argue about it. And, consdering how much AD&D I've played in the last
11 years, I think it's *desirable* to treat the subject seriously. I
tend to be dismissive and glib about things I don't care about, and if I
didn't care about role-playing I wouldn't be doing it and certainly
wouldn't have continued doing it for 11 years. You, apparently,
disagree. Even though we've both been playing for the same amount of
time, you seem to think that applying more than half a brain cell to the
discussion is a waste of time. We will have to agree to disagree