Sanctioning Vote for Chap 1

[The incredible, edible Phil]

I personally am not convinced that there should be variants of paladins for each deity. If the vision is that they are strictly holy warriors devoted to the dogma of a single deity, then would they not be martially inclined clerics with some fighter levels?

[Green Knight]

Originally posted by The incredible, edible Phil@Feb 8 2005, 01:58 AM
I personally am not convinced that there should be variants of paladins for each deity. If the vision is that they are strictly holy warriors devoted to the dogma of a single deity, then would they not be martially inclined clerics with some fighter levels?

Following this line of reasoning...why would there be a paladin class at all? Isn't that what you are asking really?

[dekrass]

With all the comments, arguments, and discussions of how things should be done and what variants should be authorized I thought I'd add my opinion.

I think the chapter as a whole should be sanctioned and things should move on. Especially considering the main point of contention is an optional variant.

I would also like to thank everyone involved in this project.
If not for the people here volunteering to write, edit, and organize something official I couldn't convince my group to use my favorite setting.

So, thank you and keep up the good work.

[irdeggman]

Next, drop the water-based special abilities as class features and make them available on her spell list instead (2nd: Water Breathing, 3rd: Water Walk, 4th: Freedom of Movement).

This is not in general a good idea. The main reasoning for inserting them as class abilities was to capture the special powers of the 2nd ed paladin. This was something that came across fairly and clear in the posts from the past – people wanted to find away to incorporate the 2nd ed abilities of the paladins. Reducing them to simply spells just sort of makes it a cleric instead. And those spells are already on their spell list.


Like Rasp, I don’t really see Paladins of Nesire in the traditional “holy warrior” role. More like the Hospitaler (3.0 version – I like the descriptions better there) as a travelling healing, mitigator, counselor, and diplomat. “Heal the injured, comfort the lost, and negotiate peace among all men” is a really good summary of what Nesirie is all about. I had trouble rationalizing the existence of paladins of Neserie in 2nd ed given her role as mother and matron of the sea and families – it just didn’t seem to fit, IMO, especially as a standard paladin – which was the base line.

With the vote based on public opinion to require the paladins to have the same alignment as their deity it led to the path that they are the epitome of what the deity is like and that they represent the strongest aspects of that deity. In many ways being closer to truly embodying the deity as closely as humanly possible.

While the clerics represent the people the paladins represent the deity. Clerics are more strongly tied to a specific location (i.e., the temples and shrines) while paladins are more mobile and not tied down in the same way. They in general don’t preside over the day-to-day ceremonies, although they would know them intimately. They instead are more along the demonstrate what a “true follower” should be lines of behavior. Clerics of Neserie are almost always located along coastlines and major river banks. This makes it hard to fulfill the role of mitagator for wars and such.

As I said, I can do some changes, and I am ready for some of them; what I could not tolerate was the way things were told...

Furthermore, I believe that, should Irdeggman back out on this, we COULD work the class a little, but any changes will have to wait for now; both Aurel and Osprey have proven to be good listeners and can converse very well, it's just that you have to make sure that the project goes on like we all have to do. No more lag allowed.

I guess this means I should drop out and let the BRCS proceed without me or this referring to this single issue? I tried to do that a while ago. One because I needed a break and two so I could pursue a professional writing opportunity (which fell through by the way – I guess the closest I’ll be putting out for awhile will be some articles in the upcoming Last Resort (the Alternity e-zine). While Osprey valiantly attempted to keep the project moving it appeared to me that he was quickly becoming bogged down and overwhelmed. Thanks again Jeremy for trying. I saw the project quickly reaching stagnation again so I stepped back in. If this is the wrong thing to do let me know and I’ll turn things over. But not to Ian (Raesene) – not because he couldn’t do it but because his plate is even more full with the Atlas project.

If people want to cancel to vote please make a post and what thing(s) should be revisited. Keeping in mind that is just totally disrespectful to those who bothered to vote for sanctioning (or on individual issues) to ignore those previous polls.

Remember we have been at this chapter in particular since last March. I don’t even want to think how long the “tough” chapters will be (ruling domains and armies and war).

[Raesene Andu]

I think that once a few more days have passed and enough people voted, then it is time to move off this chapter an onto the next one. If people aren't happy with the Paladin of Nesirie, write a new version and submit it vote. We shouldn't be stuck for week arguing about what is, after all, a variant rule.

Holding up sanctioning an entire chapter because of one variant rule is a little silly, especially as it is a ruling consider underpowered by everyone who is objecting. If it was overpowered or game breaking then perhaps it would need careful examination.

[ConjurerDragon]

edible Phil schrieb:



>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...ST&f=36&t=2988

>

> The incredible, edible Phil wrote:

> A few more edits to consider:

>

>Under elven traits, it is written: "Cerilian Elves receive Marital Weapon Proficiency with longsword, shortbow, and longbow." (page 6 on the .doc)

>

>Now I didn`t know cerilian elves were that kinky. ;)

>

>

>

>Within the restricted regional feats section, I disagree with making spirited charge anuirean only because both the Khinasi and vos do have significant traditions for riding. The same applies for Mounted Archery which I think should also be expanded to include the Vos.

>

Why would the Khir-aften-el-Arrasi bother to use something like spirited

charge? Most of their cavalry is lighter than the Anuirean counterparts

and all their cavalry has missile capacity. Their way would be similar

to the way Horse Archers or in Medieval:Total War terms Turcoman Cavalry

would act. Weaken with missiles, attack the flanks, outflank into the

rear... And after that use their sabers to finish the remains.



Spirited Charge is IMO something that should be reserved in the regional

feats section to those who field the really heavily armoured knights

using heavy lances on heavy warhorses with heavy barding.



If I expand your argument that all cultures should have easy access to

Spirited Charge that have a tradition for riding then even the goblins

should get it riding on wolfs, or the Orogs for riding on lizards.



In case of the Vos I see it from the opposite direction. The Vos have

some Aztec like tradition to eat the heart of your enemy and with their

Varsk riders some heavy cavalry. IMO I see them more as fighters seeking

the melee than staying out of reach of the enemy and "cowardly"

attacking from distance with such wimpy weapons as bows ;-)

bye

Michael

[Osprey]

As I said, I can do some changes, and I am ready for some of them; what I could not tolerate was the way things were told...

Furthermore, I believe that, should Irdeggman back out on this, we COULD work the class a little, but any changes will have to wait for now; both Aurel and Osprey have proven to be good listeners and can converse very well, it's just that you have to make sure that the project goes on like we all have to do. No more lag allowed.

I guess this means I should drop out and let the BRCS proceed without me or this referring to this single issue?

I'm pretty certain Rasp was meaning "back down on this issue" of no re-editing of sanctioned sections, not back out of the entire project. The current voting of confidence/no-confidence should prove this aptly, I think.

While Osprey valiantly attempted to keep the project moving it appeared to me that he was quickly becoming bogged down and overwhelmed. Thanks again Jeremy for trying.

Oh yeah, I remember that...without some sort of actual authority, I could only be a voice saying "c'mon guys, let's do it this way." If someone needs a sabbatical in the future, make sure you leave someone else in charge of the project. This project will die without that.

I saw the project quickly reaching stagnation again so I stepped back in. If this is the wrong thing to do let me know and I’ll turn things over.

And here I thought you just loved it here so much you couldn't stay away.

If people want to cancel to vote please make a post and what thing(s) should be revisited. Keeping in mind that is just totally disrespectful to those who bothered to vote for sanctioning (or on individual issues) to ignore those previous polls.

I'd already voted to sanction the chapter before the whole Paladin of Neserie issue came up, and I don't want to change that. Overall the chapter is pretty good, most importantly the Noble has reached a sanctionable form, and as Raesene said, the Paladin of Neserie issue is over what some of us think is an underpowered variant. I still don't believe this is a good reason to not sanction the chapter, hence my vote stays "Yes, sanction chapter 1." It's not like I'm forced to use variant classes, or any other rules, in my BR campaign if I don't want to. Same goes for anyone.

Osprey

[The incredible, edible Phil]

Originally posted by Green Knight+Feb 8 2005, 07:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Green Knight @ Feb 8 2005, 07:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-The incredible@ edible Phil,Feb 8 2005, 01:58 AM
I personally am not convinced that there should be variants of paladins for each deity. If the vision is that they are strictly holy warriors devoted to the dogma of a single deity, then would they not be martially inclined clerics with some fighter levels?

Following this line of reasoning...why would there be a paladin class at all? Isn&#39;t that what you are asking really? [/b][/quote]
Paladins, with their code of conduct, and their abilities serve as paragons of chivalry. I do believe that the paladin is out of place in a polytheist society, but the "most apt" divinity in BR would be Haelyn.

[Arius Vistoon]

For me, there is still some issues to improve as the Vos and the paladin ( of nesirie ) but
I think that it is big time to validate this chapter
( we will be return after that the whole book will be validated for a last validation ).

Therefore,
I am for the validation of this chapter

[RaspK_FOG]

I am truly sorry to see that a comment I made in terms of reconcilation was so sadly worded that it lead to a misunderstanding; what I meant, Duane, and I have to ask you to forgive my stupidity for my earlier post, is that, should you consider reworking the chapter after the whole project has been completed, then we might do a serious, all-over-the-globe playtesting run amongst the developers and volunteers and see how things play out, and change what needs REALLY be fixed.