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  1. #1
    Robert Harper
    Guest

    Population Growth

    A question:

    Say the dwarven ruler of Baruk-azhik Rules one of his middle provinces from
    4 to 5 to 6. That means the population has gone from around 10,000 to 40,000.

    Where did those 30,000 dwarves come from in 6 months? This is a
    slow-reproducing race, of which there are not many.

    In human lands, more heavily populated provinces would constantly throw off
    "fodder" for development without suffering. But how do the smaller nations
    of elves and dwarves, with low birth rates, justify the possible population
    growth?

    For elves I don't have a problem. I rule that they live in harmony with
    nature. This means their development does not harm Source, but cannot go
    over 4.

    For dwarves, I'm not sure what to do.

    __________________________________________________ _________________
    | |
    | We ask ourselves if there is a God, how can this happen? |
    | Better to ask, if there is a God, must it be sane? |
    | |
    | Lucien LaCroix |
    |_________________________________________________ __________________|

  2. #2
    Undertaker
    Guest

    Population Growth

    At 10:55 PM 1/13/97 -0500, Robert Harper(rob.harper@sympatico.ca)wrote:
    >
    >Say the dwarven ruler of Baruk-azhik Rules one of his middle provinces from
    >4 to 5 to 6. That means the population has gone from around 10,000 to 40,000.
    >
    >Where did those 30,000 dwarves come from in 6 months? This is a
    >slow-reproducing race, of which there are not many.
    >
    >In human lands, more heavily populated provinces would constantly throw off
    >"fodder" for development without suffering. But how do the smaller nations
    >of elves and dwarves, with low birth rates, justify the possible population
    >growth?
    >

    This is a good question. I've given thought to alot of thought to the
    various Actions a character can perform. With many of them a DM has to make
    sure the Action is actually feasible. That is to say they must have the
    supplies available that an Action might require, before they can undertake
    it. In this case a Ruler should not be able to increase their Province,
    without the right conditions, say a boom in marriages last year, an
    immigration of nearby peoples, etc. Even then the growth of the Province
    should be kept within logical reason. A jump in Dwarven population by
    30,000(from 10,000 to 40,000)has to impossible. Maybe they could double
    their population, but it should still take slightly longer then 1, or 2 DTs
    for it to happen. Thats my 2 cents.

    Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net
    RL Homepage: http://www.metrolink.net/~veleda/sepulcher.html

  3. #3
    Jaanus Lillenberg
    Guest

    Population Growth

    Hey

    You wrote:
    >
    > A question:
    >
    > Say the dwarven ruler of Baruk-azhik Rules one of his middle provinces from
    > 4 to 5 to 6. That means the population has gone from around 10,000 to 40,000.
    >
    > Where did those 30,000 dwarves come from in 6 months? This is a
    > slow-reproducing race, of which there are not many.
    >
    > In human lands, more heavily populated provinces would constantly throw off
    > "fodder" for development without suffering. But how do the smaller nations
    > of elves and dwarves, with low birth rates, justify the possible population
    > growth?
    >
    > For elves I don't have a problem. I rule that they live in harmony with
    > nature. This means their development does not harm Source, but cannot go
    > over 4.
    >
    > For dwarves, I'm not sure what to do.

    My solution to the problem of population growth is quite simple,
    althought it may raise several questionabilities about it.

    If a dwarven province will be raised from 4 to 6 it is about 30 000
    individuals to come. I would rule it simply. Those 30 thousand are
    dwarves coming from elsewhere searching the refuge from their racemates.
    It may be done once or twice, but not a lot of times.

    Now when you have province of six. It still reproduces the people
    somehow faster and raising other provinces won't be that hard.

    All the same would go about elves... only perhaps such rise (4 to 6)
    may be commited only once. In the north there are heavily populated elven
    provinces in Lluabraight so maximum province level of 4 wouldn't be
    correct.

    Sincerely Yours
    Jaanus Lillenberg
    - ---
    jaanusl@postimees.ee

  4. #4
    Brian Green
    Guest

    Population Growth

    About Dwarves growing, etc.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the impression from the Baruk-Azhik
    PS that the Dwarves were actually a pretty fast breeding race. It's
    just that the constant wars against the Orogs, etc, "thin the herd" so
    to speak.

    Perhaps the Ruler calls for a cease-fire and allows all the poor
    warriors to go home. Can anyone say "Baby boom"? :)

    I could be wrong....

    "And I now wait / to shake the hand of fate...." -"Defender", Manowar
    Brian Green, pchild@iastate.edu aka Psychochild
    |\ _,,,---,,_ *=* Morpheus, my kitten, says "Hi!" *=*
    ZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ "If you two are so evil, then why don't
    |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' you just...EAT THIS KITTEN!"
    '---''(_/--' `-'\_) - "The Tick", Saturday morning cartoon.
    Check out: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~pchild to find out more 'bout me!

  5. #5
    rcantin@oricom.ca (Robin
    Guest

    Population Growth

    Abut fast-raising population of a province, Jaanus Lillenberg replied to -
    I don't have a clue who -

    >> Say the dwarven ruler of Baruk-azhik Rules one of his middle provinces from
    >> 4 to 5 to 6. That means the population has gone from around 10,000 to
    >>40,000.
    >>
    >> Where did those 30,000 dwarves come from in 6 months? This is a
    >> slow-reproducing race, of which there are not many.
    >>
    >> In human lands, more heavily populated provinces would constantly throw off
    >> "fodder" for development without suffering. But how do the smaller nations
    >> of elves and dwarves, with low birth rates, justify the possible population
    >> growth?
    (...)
    >My solution to the problem of population growth is quite simple,
    >althought it may raise several questionabilities about it.
    >
    >If a dwarven province will be raised from 4 to 6 it is about 30 000
    >individuals to come. I would rule it simply. Those 30 thousand are
    >dwarves coming from elsewhere searching the refuge from their racemates.
    >It may be done once or twice, but not a lot of times.
    >Now when you have province of six. It still reproduces the people
    >somehow faster and raising other provinces won't be that hard.

    Okay, just because you raise your province level by two over a six-month
    period, I don't think we should consider the province's population
    quadrupled in six months. I take the population equivalents (p. 33 RB) as
    being the population the province would normally support given its
    development level, exploitation of natural resources, etc.

    So what happends to your province upgraded from 4 to 6 is a tremendous
    economic development, a sharp demand for labour and plenty of
    opportunities. The population will eventually reach 40 000 after a few
    years, due to continued emigration and births.

    That's the way I see it - development first, population follows over a
    period of time.

    -

  6. #6
    Jaanus Lillenberg
    Guest

    Population Growth

    Hello list

    This time I write FIRST and leave the already-written for NEXT.

    The WHY, I answered was somebody was discussing about the numbers.
    I hadn't the book with me to check if those numbers were right.
    I agree you, Robin, that raising in province level is first of all
    the economic development and then afterwards the population slowly
    grows as long as there are enough resources for society to behave that
    way.

    Yours
    Jaanus Lillenberg
    - ---
    jaanusl@postimees.ee

    >
    Robin wrote:
    >
    > Abut fast-raising population of a province, Jaanus Lillenberg replied to -
    > I don't have a clue who -
    >
    > >> Say the dwarven ruler of Baruk-azhik Rules one of his middle provinces from
    > >> 4 to 5 to 6. That means the population has gone from around 10,000 to
    > >>40,000.
    > >>
    > >> Where did those 30,000 dwarves come from in 6 months? This is a
    > >> slow-reproducing race, of which there are not many.
    > >>
    > >> In human lands, more heavily populated provinces would constantly throw off
    > >> "fodder" for development without suffering. But how do the smaller nations
    > >> of elves and dwarves, with low birth rates, justify the possible population
    > >> growth?
    > (...)
    > >My solution to the problem of population growth is quite simple,
    > >althought it may raise several questionabilities about it.
    > >
    > >If a dwarven province will be raised from 4 to 6 it is about 30 000
    > >individuals to come. I would rule it simply. Those 30 thousand are
    > >dwarves coming from elsewhere searching the refuge from their racemates.
    > >It may be done once or twice, but not a lot of times.
    > >Now when you have province of six. It still reproduces the people
    > >somehow faster and raising other provinces won't be that hard.
    >
    > Okay, just because you raise your province level by two over a six-month
    > period, I don't think we should consider the province's population
    > quadrupled in six months. I take the population equivalents (p. 33 RB) as
    > being the population the province would normally support given its
    > development level, exploitation of natural resources, etc.
    >
    > So what happends to your province upgraded from 4 to 6 is a tremendous
    > economic development, a sharp demand for labour and plenty of
    > opportunities. The population will eventually reach 40 000 after a few
    > years, due to continued emigration and births.
    >
    > That's the way I see it - development first, population follows over a
    > period of time.
    >
    >

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