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  1. #1
    Robert Harper
    Guest

    Rules Interpretation Trade Rout

    Althought the Rulebook is a little unclear, The Book of Magecraft states on
    page 19, under Other Uses [of Source]:

    "With a source (7) or higher .... effectively gives him [the wizard regent]
    a guild (0) in the province, but only for the purpose of establishing a
    trade route."

    This would seem to indicate pretty clearly that a Guild 0 can establish a
    trade route. Of course, since any successful Contest action would destroy
    it immediately and the trade route with it, this would be a precarious
    investment to make and income to rely upon.

    Regarding whether a Holding 0 can launch a Contest action, this is
    essential. Otherwise, once someone and their allies controls all the
    available slots they can never be Contested and have province sewn up (I
    think its implicit to Contest in a province you must have a holding there or
    rule the province - the action is resolved using the difference between
    holding levels and a 0level holding is not the absence of any holding, it is
    a Holding level 0).

    On p.52 of the Rulebook under Create Holding it states a regent with a level
    0 Holding is free to then Rule or Contest.

    PS: In my campaign, development levels are generally much higher throughout
    the world (17th Century setting). I have found it advisable to cut the RP
    earned from Trade Routes in half since otherwise they give Thief Regents too
    much of a leg up. Has anyone found in a Cerillia campaign that over time,
    with a few Trade routes augmenting basic holdings and as Province levels are
    Ruled up, Thief Regents outstrip others in RP earnings?

    I have also tinkered Druids. Since they oppose population growth from
    farming and other such practices (essentially opposing development over
    level 4, which also goes for elves), I let them tap and control Source. I
    justify this because it is a magical essence of the Land, and they worship
    the God of the Land who has a connection with material, natural reality that
    no other deity in the campaign has.

    __________________________________________________ _________________
    | |
    | We ask ourselves if there is a God, how can this happen? |
    | Better to ask, if there is a God, must it be sane? |
    | |
    | Lucien LaCroix |
    |_________________________________________________ __________________|

  2. #2
    Jaanus Lillenberg
    Guest

    Rules Interpretation Trade Rout

    Hello

    >
    > Althought the Rulebook is a little unclear, The Book of Magecraft states on
    > page 19, under Other Uses [of Source]:
    >
    > "With a source (7) or higher .... effectively gives him [the wizard regent]
    > a guild (0) in the province, but only for the purpose of establishing a
    > trade route."

    Yes, I read it too but I interpreted it like it can have they guild for
    rare materials and such stuff he needs and giving back certain other
    rare goods found in the province he has level 7 source (this means
    he knows every footstep by heart). But I thought wizard must still raise
    it to level one with rule action (in the game terms get some merchants
    involved (perhaps not merchants, but smugglers), some hidden or public
    storages to hold the cargo etc.
    What do you think about it? Have you any other ideas of interpretation?



    > Regarding whether a Holding 0 can launch a Contest action, this is
    > essential. Otherwise, once someone and their allies controls all the
    > available slots they can never be Contested and have province sewn up (I
    > think its implicit to Contest in a province you must have a holding there or
    > rule the province - the action is resolved using the difference between
    > holding levels and a 0level holding is not the absence of any holding, it is
    > a Holding level 0).
    >
    > On p.52 of the Rulebook under Create Holding it states a regent with a level
    > 0 Holding is free to then Rule or Contest.
    >

    Yes. Thats clear now for everybody I hope :))


    Well, with you..

    Jaanus Lillenberg

    - ---
    jaanusl@postimees.ee

  3. #3
    148530@student.fbk.EUR.N
    Guest

    Rules Interpretation Trade Rout

    > Robert Harper wrote:
    >
    > > PS: In my campaign, development levels are generally much higher throughout
    > > The world (17th Century setting). I have found it advisable to cut the RP
    > > earned from Trade Routes in half since otherwise they give Thief Regents too
    > > much of a leg up. Has anyone found in a Cerillia campaign that over time,
    > > with a few Trade routes augmenting basic holdings and as Province levels are
    > > Ruled up, Thief Regents outstrip others in RP earnings?

    No, for my Merchant Prince only has a Bloodscore of 11, so I don't
    get any extra's for my multiple trade routes. Word came to my ear
    (from another player in my group) that my DM doesn't like 'all' my
    trade routes a lot (I only have 3 at the moment, which together will generate
    12GB per turn) for the money. I plan to open more routes, so I wonder
    what his reaction will be. What is your experinece with the money
    income of thief regents compared to others??


    Brian Green wrote:

    > I also re-did how different classes gain RP, into something I thought was
    > more logical and fair. Anyone interested can Mail me, or I could post
    > it on here if there is sufficient interest.

    Please mail it on the list, it could help everybody that way.
    Seb

    ************************************************** ***************
    Sebastiaan G.P. Berendse
    148530@student.fbk.eur.nl

    There is a world just around the corner of your mind
    where reality is an intruder and dreams come true.
    You may escape into it at will, you need no secret password,
    magic wand or Alladins Lamp, all you need is your own imagination...
    ************************************************** *******************

  4. #4
    Brian Green
    Guest

    Rules Interpretation Trade Rout

    Robert Harper wrote:

    > PS: In my campaign, development levels are generally much higher throughout
    > The world (17th Century setting). I have found it advisable to cut the RP
    > earned from Trade Routes in half since otherwise they give Thief Regents too
    > much of a leg up. Has anyone found in a Cerillia campaign that over time,
    > with a few Trade routes augmenting basic holdings and as Province levels are
    > Ruled up, Thief Regents outstrip others in RP earnings?

    The short answer: YES!

    The longer answer:

    I think that trade routes give a LOT of benefit to the Thief regents for
    a small setup cost. The thief was constantly running ahead of the rest
    of the players on RPs. I basically cut the RP award in half for him.

    I also re-did how different classes gain RP, into something I thought was
    more logical and fair. Anyone interested can Mail me, or I could post
    it on here if there is sufficient interest.

    "And I now wait / to shake the hand of fate...." -"Defender", Manowar
    Brian Green, pchild@iastate.edu aka Psychochild
    |\ _,,,---,,_ *=* Morpheus, my kitten, says "Hi!" *=*
    ZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ "If you two are so evil, then why don't
    |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' you just...EAT THIS KITTEN!"
    '---''(_/--' `-'\_) - "The Tick", Saturday morning cartoon.
    Check out: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~pchild to find out more 'bout me!

  5. #5
    Robert Harper
    Guest

    Rules Interpretation Trade Rout

    At 04:20 PM 1/8/97 +0200, you wrote:
    >Hello
    >
    >>
    >> Althought the Rulebook is a little unclear, The Book of Magecraft states on
    >> page 19, under Other Uses [of Source]:
    >>
    >> "With a source (7) or higher .... effectively gives him [the wizard regent]
    >> a guild (0) in the province, but only for the purpose of establishing a
    >> trade route."
    >
    >Yes, I read it too but I interpreted it like it can have they guild for
    >rare materials and such stuff he needs and giving back certain other
    >rare goods found in the province he has level 7 source (this means
    >he knows every footstep by heart). But I thought wizard must still raise
    >it to level one with rule action (in the game terms get some merchants
    >involved (perhaps not merchants, but smugglers), some hidden or public
    >storages to hold the cargo etc.
    >What do you think about it? Have you any other ideas of interpretation?

    I do not believe they would have to raise the Guild to level 1 prior to
    establishing a trade route. The Province might well be level 0 if the
    wizard has anything to say about it (since the wizard didn't want to reduce
    Source by raising development) and a level 1 Guild impossible. Remember
    level 0 provinces aren't uninhabited.

    The text of Magecraft books says "influence with local craftsmen, and his
    initmate familiarity with province's natural resources - can affect the
    local economy" There obviously isn't much of a local economy, and as one
    end of trade route a Guild 0 won't contribute much to its earnings, but it
    can serve - export lumber, furs, herbs, fish whatever even from an
    undeveloped province.

    A Guild 0 in a developed province still would extend beyond 'magical'
    resources (the Magecraft book p.50 has an example of a Guild 0 in the
    description of Garmisch and his network of merchants, and front as a
    moneychanger.

    I think if they intended the wizard to have to Rule the Guild to 1 prior to
    trade route they would have said so. Again, on page 47, in the discussion
    of actions for wizards the Trade Route action references the Guild 0 gained
    at Source 7 holding and its ability to create trade routes.

    __________________________________________________ _________________
    | |
    | We ask ourselves if there is a God, how can this happen? |
    | Better to ask, if there is a God, must it be sane? |
    | |
    | Lucien LaCroix |
    |_________________________________________________ __________________|

  6. #6
    AcqirdTast@aol.co
    Guest

    Rules Interpretation Trade Rout

    One thing that everyone might want to look up is in the Talinie sourcebook,
    there is rules that say that if you take more than half of the trade gold for
    too many turns, you lower the magic sources in a domain by one.... Check it
    out
    AcqirdTast@aol.com

  7. #7
    Jaanus Lillenberg
    Guest

    Rules Interpretation Trade Rout

    >
    > Robert Harper wrote:
    >
    > > PS: In my campaign, development levels are generally much higher throughout
    > > The world (17th Century setting). I have found it advisable to cut the RP
    > > earned from Trade Routes in half since otherwise they give Thief Regents too
    > > much of a leg up. Has anyone found in a Cerillia campaign that over time,
    > > with a few Trade routes augmenting basic holdings and as Province levels are
    > > Ruled up, Thief Regents outstrip others in RP earnings?
    >
    > The short answer: YES!
    >
    Hmm. Lets say your thief will have bloodline strength of 15.
    Then the maximum regency regardless of trade routes or whatever
    is 15 and only 15. Its clearly stated in rulebook.
    Dont remember the page number.

    Jaanus
    - ---
    jaanusl@postimees.ee

  8. #8
    Jaanus Lillenberg
    Guest

    Rules Interpretation Trade Rout

    >
    > One thing that everyone might want to look up is in the Talinie sourcebook,
    > there is rules that say that if you take more than half of the trade gold for
    > too many turns, you lower the magic sources in a domain by one.... Check it
    > out
    > AcqirdTast@aol.com

    Hello
    Fortunately I have it with my right now.
    It states on page 24:
    Optional devastation rule

    To stimulate dagardation rule of a porvince,
    the GM may assign it a "devastation point"
    during any domain durn in which the guilds collect more than
    1/2 (round down) the GB alowed by the province's guild
    oldings. For example, Tiplip's guild holding total 5;
    if the guild collects more than 2 KB from them in a turn, Tiplip
    recieves one devastation point.
    Every 20 devastation puints permanently reduce provinces
    magic potential by one level.

    Oh, well.. I made some changes in spelling (you see lots of typos ) :))
    Thats for copyright. I dont think TSR would claim such dysgraphic
    thing :))

    Well thats all folks
    Jaanus Lillenberg
    - ---
    jaanusl@postimees.ee

  9. #9
    Jonathan Picklesimer
    Guest

    Rules Interpretation Trade Rout

    On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, Jaanus Lillenberg wrote:

    > Fortunately I have it with my right now.
    > It states on page 24:
    > Optional devastation rule
    >
    > To stimulate dagardation rule of a porvince,
    > the GM may assign it a "devastation point"
    > during any domain durn in which the guilds collect more than
    > 1/2 (round down) the GB alowed by the province's guild
    > oldings. For example, Tiplip's guild holding total 5;
    > if the guild collects more than 2 KB from them in a turn, Tiplip
    > recieves one devastation point.
    > Every 20 devastation puints permanently reduce provinces
    > magic potential by one level.
    >

    So what you are saying is that, basically, you cannot maintain a trade
    route from a province where you make more gold than 1/2 of the provinces
    rating for more than 20 domain turns before the province source level
    lowers by one. Does that mean that your guild holding in that province
    gained by one? Can this damage, as suggested in the Book of Magecraft,
    be recovered after some tender loving care from a mage or druid?

    Jonathan

  10. #10
    148530@student.fbk.EUR.N
    Guest

    Rules Interpretation Trade Rout

    Ian Hoskins wrote:
    > I found the thief regent in my campaign has over time earnt a lot more money
    > than everyone else. The PC blay a thief in my campaign had set up shop in
    > Ilien, using the ports of call exchange guilds. Using the rules from the
    > cities of the sun expansion he is able to have 6 trade routes from the
    > province, each bringing in 4-7 gold/turn for a total around 30 gold/turn.
    > Using this and money from other guild he maintained an army of around 20 units
    > in one small province, without taxing the popultion very high, or at all some
    > times. There shouldn't be a problem with RP's though, as most Regents are limited by
    > their bloodline score...
    >
    What are the rules concerning trade routes in cities of the sun? I
    haven't got the book. Is it a lot different than the Camp Setting
    rules?
    Seb

    ************************************************** ***************
    Sebastiaan G.P. Berendse
    148530@student.fbk.eur.nl

    There is a world just around the corner of your mind
    where reality is an intruder and dreams come true.
    You may escape into it at will, you need no secret password,
    magic wand or Alladins Lamp, all you need is your own imagination...
    ************************************************** *******************

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