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  1. #1
    Kent Lerch
    Guest

    Rules (Bloodline)

    Greetings,
    Craig recently wrote:
    "In the campaign I am gearing up to run, one of the major NPC's has the blood
    ability from "Blood Enemies" that makes him invulnrable. That is, he can't
    die from normal wounding, only under specific conditions will this person
    actually die. Other conditions will have him look dead, but he will regenerate
    like a
    troll until he is back to normal health. I set this fella up with the condition
    that acid will do permanent damage to him; and placed a sizeable enough pool of
    acid in the area so that eventually the PC's can figure out how to get him, and
    find the acid via adventure, such that in the far off grand confrontation, they
    *do* have a chance to kill him for real. (I'm planning on giving them a couple
    of
    chances beforehand so they can "kill" him and then he comes back)
    My question is this: What happens when such an invulnrable character (who's
    blooded obviously) takes a shot through the heart??? This won't kill him as
    it will others, but I would think bloodtheft should occur. And if it does,
    what's
    that leave him with?? Does the sword through the heart negate his blooded
    ability as the bloodtheft occurs; or does the bloodtheft occur and leave him
    with a reduced
    bloodline, or a compeltely absent one???"
    I do not think that there will be a bloodtheft, not even a temporary one. The
    Rulebook states on p. 31: "If a scion or regent dies as a result of another
    blooded character piercing him through the heart, the victim's heir assumes his
    domain ... (The act of piercing the regent through the heart must be the killing
    blow)". Your invulnerable character gets pierced through his heart, but does
    >not< get killed (I haven't got my Blood enemies at hand, so maybe someone can
    check the entry on the blood ability "invulnerability" to see whether I got this
    right). Thus, no bloodtheft (IMO).
    Although I assume that there is a straight answer to this problem, I nonetheless
    think you raised an interesting point here. What about raised/resurrected
    characters which got killed in the time-honoured manner? Will they come back
    without their bloodline? Are their points in temporary suspension? Will the
    points wander from victim to slayer and back to raised victim? Will there be a
    difference if the slayer is a commoner? What about the heirs of the slain
    regents? And what about Clones? Will they also have blood points? Is this an
    easy way to get an easy supply of victims for your evil wizard regent ...[ ;-)
    ]...?
    Kent

  2. #2
    Jonathan Picklesimer
    Guest

    Rules (Bloodline)

    On 8 Jan 1997, Kent Lerch wrote:

    > Although I assume that there is a straight answer to this problem, I nonetheless
    > think you raised an interesting point here. What about raised/resurrected
    > characters which got killed in the time-honoured manner? Will they come back
    > without their bloodline? Are their points in temporary suspension? Will the
    > points wander from victim to slayer and back to raised victim? Will there be a
    > difference if the slayer is a commoner? What about the heirs of the slain
    > regents? And what about Clones? Will they also have blood points? Is this an
    > easy way to get an easy supply of victims for your evil wizard regent ...[ ;-)
    > ]...?

    Check out the adventuer Njarlgrim's Doom in the Rjurik Highlands campaign
    expansion. It has a spectral scion, which is a scion who had his
    bloodline stolen via a tighmeivril weapon. Now this is not quite the
    same as being resurected, but the spectre did not have his former blood
    abilities.

  3. #3
    Jonathan Picklesimer
    Guest

    Rules (Bloodline)

    On 8 Jan 1997, Kent Lerch wrote:

    > Although I assume that there is a straight answer to this problem, I nonetheless
    > think you raised an interesting point here. What about raised/resurrected
    > characters which got killed in the time-honoured manner? Will they come back
    > without their bloodline? Are their points in temporary suspension? Will the
    > points wander from victim to slayer and back to raised victim? Will there be a
    > difference if the slayer is a commoner? What about the heirs of the slain
    > regents? And what about Clones? Will they also have blood points? Is this an
    > easy way to get an easy supply of victims for your evil wizard regent ...[ ;-)
    > ]...?

    Check out the adventuer Njarlgrim's Doom in the Rjurik Highlands campaign
    expansion. It has a spectral scion, which is a scion who had his
    bloodline stolen via a tighmeivril weapon. Now this is not quite the
    same as being resurected, but the spectre did not have his former blood
    abilities.

  4. #4
    Undertaker
    Guest

    Rules (Bloodline)

    At 07:59 AM 1/8/97 EST, Kent Lerch(100716.2601@CompuServe.COM)wrote:
    >
    >Although I assume that there is a straight answer to this problem, I
    nonetheless
    >think you raised an interesting point here. What about raised/resurrected
    >characters which got killed in the time-honoured manner? Will they come back
    >without their bloodline? Are their points in temporary suspension? Will the
    >points wander from victim to slayer and back to raised victim? Will there be a
    >difference if the slayer is a commoner? What about the heirs of the slain
    >regents? And what about Clones? Will they also have blood points? Is this an
    >easy way to get an easy supply of victims for your evil wizard regent ...[ ;-)
    >

    Once a Bloodline(BL) has been drained from someone it is gone. If the person
    is Raised, Cloned, or brought back from the dead, for any reason, they
    should be less their past Bloodablities. At the time of death the power goes
    from the slain to the slayer, lock, stock, and barrel. Of course the
    ex-Scion(once brought back from the dead)may be able to sense the location
    of the being who stole his BL, and hunt him down. As a DM you have to decide
    this yourself. As for Clones that a Scion makes of themself, they should
    have no BL, unless they can destroy the original. Which of course defeats
    the purpose of making the Clones to increase your own power. Lastly, Heirs
    to a Regent can only gain their BL if the Regent can vest them with the
    power, and then transfer it at the time of their deaths. Bloodtheft
    interrupts this process, and robs the Heir of their "rightful" power.

    Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net
    RL Homepage: http://www.metrolink.net/~veleda/sepulcher.html

  5. #5
    Robert Harper
    Guest

    Rules (Bloodline)

    At 12:52 PM 1/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
    >At 07:59 AM 1/8/97 EST, Kent Lerch(100716.2601@CompuServe.COM)wrote:
    >>
    >>Although I assume that there is a straight answer to this problem, I
    >nonetheless
    >>think you raised an interesting point here. What about raised/resurrected
    >>characters which got killed in the time-honoured manner? Will they come back
    >>without their bloodline? Are their points in temporary suspension? Will the
    >>points wander from victim to slayer and back to raised victim? Will there be a
    >>difference if the slayer is a commoner? What about the heirs of the slain
    >>regents? And what about Clones? Will they also have blood points? Is this an
    >>easy way to get an easy supply of victims for your evil wizard regent ...[ ;-)
    >>
    >
    >Once a Bloodline(BL) has been drained from someone it is gone. If the person
    >is Raised, Cloned, or brought back from the dead, for any reason, they
    >should be less their past Bloodablities. At the time of death the power goes
    >from the slain to the slayer, lock, stock, and barrel. Of course the
    >ex-Scion(once brought back from the dead)may be able to sense the location
    >of the being who stole his BL, and hunt him down. As a DM you have to decide
    >this yourself. As for Clones that a Scion makes of themself, they should
    >have no BL, unless they can destroy the original. Which of course defeats
    >the purpose of making the Clones to increase your own power. Lastly, Heirs
    >to a Regent can only gain their BL if the Regent can vest them with the
    >power, and then transfer it at the time of their deaths. Bloodtheft
    >interrupts this process, and robs the Heir of their "rightful" power.
    >
    I'm a little more generous, what I use is following:

    If a character killed by Bloodtheft is restored to life, their Bloodline is
    reduced by half. Lost Regency Points are not recovered. Otherwise, a
    resurrected Scion or Regent is restored with Bloodline and Regency intact,
    if raised before the next Domain Turn commences (at which point Regency
    either transfers to a declared heir, or dissipates).

    Since Bloodtheft normally only transfers a small fraction of a Bloodline to
    killer, this does not result in a "net increase" in Bloodlines in total.

    I think you need to permit characters to continue on after being Raised
    without too much handicap. Having the Raised King reduced to unblooded
    status is a little strong in my book.

    Someone killed with a tighmaevril weapon would be a different story.

    __________________________________________________ _________________
    | |
    | We ask ourselves if there is a God, how can this happen? |
    | Better to ask, if there is a God, must it be sane? |
    | |
    | Lucien LaCroix |
    |_________________________________________________ __________________|

  6. #6
    Undertaker
    Guest

    Rules (Bloodline)

    At 07:55 PM 1/8/97 -0500, Robert Harper(rob.harper@sympatico.ca)wrote:
    >
    >At 12:52 PM 1/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
    >>Once a Bloodline(BL) has been drained from someone it is gone. If the person
    >>is Raised, Cloned, or brought back from the dead, for any reason, they
    >>should be less their past Bloodablities. At the time of death the power goes
    >>from the slain to the slayer, lock, stock, and barrel. Of course the
    >>ex-Scion(once brought back from the dead)may be able to sense the location
    >>of the being who stole his BL, and hunt him down. As a DM you have to decide
    >>this yourself. As for Clones that a Scion makes of themself, they should
    >>have no BL, unless they can destroy the original. Which of course defeats
    >>the purpose of making the Clones to increase your own power. Lastly, Heirs
    >>to a Regent can only gain their BL if the Regent can vest them with the
    >>power, and then transfer it at the time of their deaths. Bloodtheft
    >>interrupts this process, and robs the Heir of their "rightful" power.
    >>
    >
    >I'm a little more generous, what I use is following:
    >
    >If a character killed by Bloodtheft is restored to life, their Bloodline is
    >reduced by half. Lost Regency Points are not recovered. Otherwise, a
    >resurrected Scion or Regent is restored with Bloodline and Regency intact,
    >if raised before the next Domain Turn commences (at which point Regency
    >either transfers to a declared heir, or dissipates).
    >
    >Since Bloodtheft normally only transfers a small fraction of a Bloodline to
    >killer, this does not result in a "net increase" in Bloodlines in total.
    >
    >I think you need to permit characters to continue on after being Raised
    >without too much handicap. Having the Raised King reduced to unblooded
    >status is a little strong in my book.
    >

    Here is where we differ. I think that a PC who has died should be more
    worried about returning to life then his Bloodabilities(BA). I'm not one to
    allow for an easy return from the dead. The lost character would have to
    hope one of his/her fellows could find a way to bring them back. Not an easy
    task in my campaign. Once back the PC should have some trials to overcome
    due to his demise. Depending on who slayed them they may need to fight for
    their Domain back, but they should definatly have to struggle to regain
    their BL. This could make for some incredible adventures, and should. If a
    being like a Blooded individual is killed, they should not be able to return
    from the dead, and resume things as though little has changed. I like death
    to be a major thing in my campaigns, and the loss of BA is just another way
    of making Players be more careful.

    Previously I suggested that the raised PC might be able to sense the
    location of the person who killed them, and drained their ablities. Prehaps
    if they can hunt down, and slay them by piercing their heart, they could
    regain their BL, at half strength, as you suggested. If the PC dies of
    natural causes, or is killed by a commoner, then returned to life, I agree
    that they should return with their BL, again at half strength, as you
    suggest. I am only basing my opinion on my interpretation of the
    Bloodtheft(BT) rules in the BR rulebook. It makes it sound like the BL of a
    PC is lost, or absorbed, when they die. Its true another Scion only gains a
    small boost to their ablities when they commit BT, but it sounds like they
    use all the power in order to gain it. As the situation has yet to come up
    in my game, I can only guess at how I would handle it. All I can say is I
    would want the PC to feel as though the Character's death was more then just
    a stumbling block. Overall though you are right, prehaps I was a bit too
    rough at first, but I can only see loosening the screws a little.

    Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net
    RL Homepage: http://www.metrolink.net/~veleda/sepulcher.html

  7. #7
    Alvin Otto
    Guest

    Rules (Bloodline)

    Hi all

    > >>Although I assume that there is a straight answer to this problem, I
    > >nonetheless
    > >>think you raised an interesting point here. What about raised/resurrected
    > >>characters which got killed in the time-honoured manner? Will they come back
    > >>without their bloodline? Are their points in temporary suspension? Will the
    > >>points wander from victim to slayer and back to raised victim? Will there be a
    > >>difference if the slayer is a commoner? What about the heirs of the slain
    > >>regents? And what about Clones? Will they also have blood points? Is this an
    > >>easy way to get an easy supply of victims for your evil wizard regent ...[ ;-)
    > >>
    > >
    > >Once a Bloodline(BL) has been drained from someone it is gone. If the person
    > >is Raised, Cloned, or brought back from the dead, for any reason, they
    > >should be less their past Bloodablities. At the time of death the power goes
    > >from the slain to the slayer, lock, stock, and barrel. Of course the
    > >ex-Scion(once brought back from the dead)may be able to sense the location
    > >of the being who stole his BL, and hunt him down. As a DM you have to decide
    > >this yourself. As for Clones that a Scion makes of themself, they should
    > >have no BL, unless they can destroy the original. Which of course defeats
    > >the purpose of making the Clones to increase your own power. Lastly, Heirs
    > >to a Regent can only gain their BL if the Regent can vest them with the
    > >power, and then transfer it at the time of their deaths. Bloodtheft
    > >interrupts this process, and robs the Heir of their "rightful" power.
    > >
    > I'm a little more generous, what I use is following:
    >
    > If a character killed by Bloodtheft is restored to life, their Bloodline is
    > reduced by half. Lost Regency Points are not recovered. Otherwise, a
    > resurrected Scion or Regent is restored with Bloodline and Regency intact,
    > if raised before the next Domain Turn commences (at which point Regency
    > either transfers to a declared heir, or dissipates).
    >
    > Since Bloodtheft normally only transfers a small fraction of a Bloodline to
    > killer, this does not result in a "net increase" in Bloodlines in total.
    >
    > I think you need to permit characters to continue on after being Raised
    > without too much handicap. Having the Raised King reduced to unblooded
    > status is a little strong in my book.
    >
    > Someone killed with a tighmaevril weapon would be a different story.

    I haven't as yet started my Birthright campaign, but in most cases I
    tend to be rather harshe on death under any circumstances. As such
    this is the way I am using resurection with Blooded characters and so
    forth.

    One a character dies depending how - if it was by a non blooded
    charcater or NPC I more or less leave hime with 1/4 of his initial
    bloodline.

    In the case of the charcater being a scion, on his death all regency
    points are passed on. As such he won't get any of his regency points
    back at all. I more or less work that on a scions death, the transfer of
    regency starts. The charcater has no control over it at all if he is
    raised. If no heir is chosen recency points will disipate at a
    certain rate util he is resurected.( I personally view the transfer of
    regency at beginning of the next turn more simply a a playing aid,
    rather than thye exact time it is transfered. )

    As far as bloodtheft is concerned. The BL that a charcater or NPC has
    once he has been resurected would depend a large amount on the BL of
    the guy who killed him. For if the PC was killed by a guy with a
    mutch higher BL than him he would keep very little. If he was killed
    by someone with a mutch lower BL he would keep more, but less than
    1/4 of his original BL.

    In the case of a tighmaveril weapon loses all regency, no transfer
    and blood score is dropped to one.

    Just a thought
    Cheers
    Alvin

  8. #8
    Jaanus Lillenberg
    Guest

    Rules (Bloodline)

    Hey !

    > >I think you need to permit characters to continue on after being Raised
    > >without too much handicap. Having the Raised King reduced to unblooded
    > >status is a little strong in my book.
    > >
    >
    > Here is where we differ. I think that a PC who has died should be more
    > worried about returning to life then his Bloodabilities(BA). I'm not one to
    > allow for an easy return from the dead. The lost character would have to
    > hope one of his/her fellows could find a way to bring them back. Not an easy
    > task in my campaign. Once back the PC should have some trials to overcome
    > due to his demise. Depending on who slayed them they may need to fight for
    > their Domain back, but they should definatly have to struggle to regain
    > their BL. This could make for some incredible adventures, and should. If a
    > being like a Blooded individual is killed, they should not be able to return
    > from the dead, and resume things as though little has changed. I like death
    > to be a major thing in my campaigns, and the loss of BA is just another way
    > of making Players be more careful.
    >
    > Previously I suggested that the raised PC might be able to sense the
    > location of the person who killed them, and drained their ablities. Prehaps
    > if they can hunt down, and slay them by piercing their heart, they could
    > regain their BL, at half strength, as you suggested. If the PC dies of
    > natural causes, or is killed by a commoner, then returned to life, I agree
    > that they should return with their BL, again at half strength, as you
    > suggest. I am only basing my opinion on my interpretation of the
    > Bloodtheft(BT) rules in the BR rulebook. It makes it sound like the BL of a
    > PC is lost, or absorbed, when they die. Its true another Scion only gains a
    > small boost to their ablities when they commit BT, but it sounds like they
    > use all the power in order to gain it. As the situation has yet to come up
    > in my game, I can only guess at how I would handle it. All I can say is I
    > would want the PC to feel as though the Character's death was more then just
    > a stumbling block. Overall though you are right, prehaps I was a bit too
    > rough at first, but I can only see loosening the screws a little.

    Oh, Sir. Let me take a bow at thou. They way you look at the things
    makes me really taking a bow.. :)

    In my campaigns so far I cannot remember any case of raising a character.
    In otherways...
    I: You just took breath damage from the little painted dragon as you opened
    the sheneshals letter. You may roll saving throw for halved
    acid and fire damage.
    PC: I roll.. ah.. I failed. Okey, may I play the Paladin I had my
    best friend and follower (an NPC).
    I: Well, wait. At first "The terrible death cry splits the sleeping
    silence of Blacktower castle and in a second the whole guard is awake
    and on arms. Baron you are waked up and surrounded by your
    loyal knights, althought half of them have only a carpet for armour
    and a dagger for weapon.
    To the PC who died: Your friend was standing in watch right behind your
    door right?
    PC: Yes.
    I: You open the door first and you see the painful death of your
    master....

    .... later that night.
    I: To PC: You are drinking wine with comerades as the truth of the
    death of your master comes fully over you. And you become
    VERY VERY sad.. Please roll for system shock whether you will die
    from sadness or not.
    PC: I rolled... eeee .. baaa.. 98 % I failed. *pout*
    I: Well...
    PC: May I take the second and last blooded paladin my priest pc had?
    I: Okey. You may play it.

    Thats how I have ruled it. To die is to die..
    Remember Gorgon slayed Michael Roele... If the raising a person
    were easy to get to any baron then that would have been a *nothing*
    for an emperor to get a resurrection.

    There are also at least 3 or perhaps 4 persons able to cast wish
    in the world of Cerilia. That what I read out from the books.
    (1: High Queen of elves of Lluabraight; 2. Chancellor or Royal College
    in Anuire; 3. Magian 4.Aglondiers line of wizards if they get high level
    enough).

    Althought Magian wasnt presented in Cerilia at that time yet, High
    Queen didnt rule yet and Aglondiers line perhaps was in the grow still,
    the College could have the spell ready for use.

    They also could have been paid with whatever I think... for to get
    emperor back to the life.

    I havent read the book about MR's death but I bet the book is going
    about to end with the death of last Emperor.


    Concerning to all the facts above. What do you think if
    a blooded person KILLED with a TIGHMAEVRIL weapon cannot be surrected
    SIMPLY neither got back to life with one wish.
    I think there would be need of three wishes: 1) Get him back to life
    2) Get him back his bloodline 3) Get his back his mystical ties
    to the land and folk (this means also regency).

    If he would be resurrected it would be person with
    tainted bloodline with strength of 1. And the person would suffer
    major losses of ability scores as if he had commited the blood
    transformation to another person.

    If he could resurrected AND wished for bloodline then he still
    suffers the loss of land and all regency. He is just a hero, a scion
    around.

    Only if he gets all three wishes on him or 1 resurrection
    and 2 wishes...

    Uuh.. in other terms I agree with previous writer...

    Jaanus
    jaanusl@postimees.ee

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