Initiate Feats

[Mark_Aurel]

I really like these feats. You have an excellent eye for mechanics, Phil.

On the other hand, I'm not entirely certain whether I like the concept of Initiate feats or not in the first place. In a way, they seem to reduce options, not increase them.

[The incredible, edible Phil]

One of the interresting things they did with initiate feats is that it allows clerics more leeway in their domain selection and it provides another possible requirement for deity-specific prestige classes or for expanded feats that work off the initiate.

However, where BR is "lacking" is in converted 3rd (or 3.5) edition deity-specific spells.

[Mark_Aurel]

I can see what you mean about more leeway in domain selection. Being a prestige class requirement isn't necessarily a good thing, however.

There are several different problems. First, some of these feats are good. They aren't no-brainers, but they're good enough to make a top 10 or top 20 list of most desirable feats. Not a problem in and of itself.

It becomes a problem, however, if the feats drive access to prestige classes that grant additional cool benefits. Then they sail straight up to the no-brainer category for a lot of characters.

The main problem, however, is that they sort of restrict character choice if you want to be a cleric of this god or that. No one is forcing you to take those feats, but the way they're made would sort of make a cleric of a specific god feel incomplete without them. That's the real problem, I think -- you'd be seeing a lot of 1st-level clerics with these feats, and thus less variety within the priesthoods. It's not a strong, tangible complaint, but I think it's a fairly strong intangible design flaw in these feats.

[The incredible, edible Phil]

Well using FR as a template as that is where the initiate feats first appeared, the initiate feats are fairly stronger not only in spell selection but also in the ability.


So far, a single PrC (Scourge Maiden) has required the Initiate of [Loviatar] feat (out of a possibility of 3 books, although none of them have focused much on the divine), but because of that requirement, compared to a similar PrC in 3e, it has fewer feat requirements. Afterall, part of the secrets of a clergy would be the PrCs. This frees up other feat slots some.

[irdeggman]

I also like the latest versions of these feats.

The bigggest problem I have with initiate feats (not your versions by the way) is that while they are based on deep commited devotion they are not written well. For example in Races of Destiny there are several of them that can be taken at 1st level. How can a character have demonstrated deep devotion and commitment at 1st level?

I like how you chose to maintain the concept of demonstrating the devotion by not allowing the feats to be taken at 1st level (or maybe just ignoring those that could, either way it was a wise decision IMO).