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Thread: Birthright

  1. #1
    Grimwell, Cerilian
    Guest

    Birthright

    David,

    I want to thank you for your previous letter to me (and a few others)
    concerning Birthright, and it's chance for a revival. Your honest and direct
    approach was really appreciated. It was yet another verificatoin of the fact
    that TSR is a better company now than it was previously.

    I wanted to float an idea over your way concerning the Once and Future
    Worlds. I was in a hobby shop this past weekend; and was feeling in the mood
    for some Necromunda (Games Workshop, miniatures combat). I play this game
    from time to time, mainly as a diversion to keep my appetite for D&D fresh.
    It's fun, fast, and gritty.
    When I get around to spending my gaming money on GW products like
    Necromnda, I just browse the goods and get what catches the eye. I'm not a
    die hard for them and don't have everything, nor do I even know what is
    "current" half the time. The one thing that caught my eye, and got my money,
    was a mini-magazine that dealt with Necromunda directly.
    After reading the magazine over, I'm very glad I picked it up. It contained
    new material for the game, and expanded on the base rules. Some of the
    information was developed by GW, the rest was taken from submissions by
    fans. One extremely good article was taken from a Necromunda fan webpage! It
    was all good material, things I could put directly into my games without any
    real overhaul of the current rules; and it all looked fun. Needless to say,
    I am going to be starting up a Necromunda gangwar with my friends real soon!
    The one thing about this that I feel TSR/WOTC can emulate, and benefit
    from, is the publishing format: Quarterly, if demand supports it. The
    minimag made it clear that this was only going to continue if the fans went
    for it. It's a good way to keep a product alive that they are not currently
    supporting as "active". The price was 4.99 (they are known for their high
    ticket status eh!), and it had around 50 pages of material, with NO
    advertisements. All the art was taken from prior production, and was not the
    focus, the focus was to get some "new" information out to those of us who
    would care without having to do a full blown production for their line.

    I could easily see something like this being done for Birthright, or any of
    the other settings that are currently out of print. TSR could put together a
    few articles that the designers may or may not have developed before the
    line(s) went down, add in some fan submissions (just ask the BR mailing list
    and you'll get more than enough) and put it out. The editiing and "look"
    does not have to be flashy. Make it clear that this is a low cost move
    directed straight to the fans who want it.
    Marketing? Nah, sell it direct from the website and do a limited run on the
    product. The point would be to only serve those who already are hungry.
    Drawing in new people wouldn't be the goal. Heck, don't even print it, just
    sell it as a download and let us print it! Even lower cost! Add in a little
    note from Rich Baker or someone else who was heavily invested in the
    Birthright line, and you'd have a winner.

    Now, I understand that you can't do everything us fans want. I also
    understand that 3E is the main focus right now. I also agree that the move
    to the center is the best plan for the company as a whole. This means I know
    the company can only do so much for these worlds before the cost of the
    endeavor gets to be too much. All I ask is that you give it some thought;
    sleep on it actually. Putting out a semi-annual minimag could show TSR how
    much of an interest there is for the setting. Include a postcard survey
    targeted directly at that setting's audience. This could give some good
    marketing data that might help decide which setting to bring back first when
    the company finally comes around.

    My hope, of course, is that Birthright will be the setting. I think it
    could be a fantastic groundbreaker if presented correctly.

    Thanks for your time

    Craig T. Dalrymple
    aka.
    >
    Grimwell, wizard of Cerilia
    The Birthright Revival is NOW! :)
    When you've had the best, why buy the rest?

    p.s. I am going to forward a copy of this to the Birthright Mailing list. I
    want you to know this because I am hoping they will all get in touch with
    you and tell you how good of an idea this is ;)


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  2. #2
    David Thomas
    Guest

    Birthright

    Someone earlier mentioned adopting BR rules for a non-BR setting.

    Does anyone know of a Web page or article that details how to use the basic
    BR realm administration rules (which are killer) WITHOUT having bloodlines?

    I'm not worried about stripping out realm spells and temple spells; that's
    easy. What's hard is figuring out regency limits without a blood score.
    Perhaps based on popularity?

    I'd love a link or an attached article, if anyone has one. Thanks!

    This brings up an interesting chicken-and-egg question: which came first,
    the realm-administration rules or the concept of a bloodscore? I can just
    see the designers saying, we need something to build our rules framework
    around...how about an innate link to the land that determines how strong a
    ruler you can be? Then they developed bloodscores, then Mount Deissmar as a
    backstory. That's one possibility...


    _______________________________________________
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    Senior Editor
    Individual Investor Magazine
    125 Broad Street, 14th Floor
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  3. #3
    Grimwell, Cerilian
    Guest

    Birthright

    >From: David Thomas
    >Someone earlier mentioned adopting BR rules for a non-BR setting.
    >
    >Does anyone know of a Web page or article that details how to use the basic
    >BR realm administration rules (which are killer) WITHOUT having bloodlines?
    >
    >I'm not worried about stripping out realm spells and temple spells; that's
    >easy. What's hard is figuring out regency limits without a blood score.
    >Perhaps based on popularity?

    I don't know of a particular link that deals with this. What I would do is
    just ignore the bloodlines totally and work off of Domain Power. They get
    what the holdings generate. Obviously, this kills the vassalage idea where
    you get more people to manage land for you as you could not manage it all
    alone (due to bloodline limits on regency).

    A popularity score that works just like bloodline could work. You could use
    it as a marker that does not reflect any of the abilities. Also might want
    to include levels as a way to increase the "popularity" score, though you
    don't want that to be the only or best way as that would force all regents
    to be classed to the nth degree (forgotten realms syndrome).

    One foil for popularity would be the evil overlord. Perhaps a "control"
    value instead. The more accomplished a person is, the more control they can
    exert. If they loose face,they loose control.

    there are ways to get it done without much tinkering.


    >
    Grimwell, wizard of Cerilia
    The Birthright Revival is NOW! :)
    When you've had the best, why buy the rest?


    __________________________________________________ _____________
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  4. #4
    ron poirier
    Guest

    Birthright

    I allowed "starting" nobles (PCs who gained levels and made a successful
    grab at the brass ring of nobility by earning titles) to begin with the
    equivalent of "tainted" bloodlines. Meanwhile, heirs who were groomed to
    rule after their sires had passed on received bloodline scores equivalent to
    that of the parent. Basically, in my mind this reflected how much skill and
    experience the character had at ruling a realm. Peasant heroes who make it
    big don;t know much about ruling baronies effectively -- powerful princes
    who have been bred, born, and groomed for the job do.

    In essence, the "bloodline" score becomes a sort of unusual NWP, which a
    regent may get better (or worse!) at as time goes on.

    - Ron ^*^


    At 08:42 PM 8/23/99 GMT, you wrote:
    >>From: David Thomas
    >>Someone earlier mentioned adopting BR rules for a non-BR setting.
    >>
    >>Does anyone know of a Web page or article that details how to use the basic
    >>BR realm administration rules (which are killer) WITHOUT having bloodlines?
    >>
    >>I'm not worried about stripping out realm spells and temple spells; that's
    >>easy. What's hard is figuring out regency limits without a blood score.
    >>Perhaps based on popularity?
    >
    >I don't know of a particular link that deals with this. What I would do is
    >just ignore the bloodlines totally and work off of Domain Power. They get
    >what the holdings generate. Obviously, this kills the vassalage idea where
    >you get more people to manage land for you as you could not manage it all
    >alone (due to bloodline limits on regency).
    >
    >A popularity score that works just like bloodline could work. You could use
    >it as a marker that does not reflect any of the abilities. Also might want
    >to include levels as a way to increase the "popularity" score, though you
    >don't want that to be the only or best way as that would force all regents
    >to be classed to the nth degree (forgotten realms syndrome).
    >
    >One foil for popularity would be the evil overlord. Perhaps a "control"
    >value instead. The more accomplished a person is, the more control they can
    >exert. If they loose face,they loose control.
    >
    >there are ways to get it done without much tinkering.
    >
    >
    >>
    >Grimwell, wizard of Cerilia
    >The Birthright Revival is NOW! :)
    >When you've had the best, why buy the rest?
    >
    >
    >_________________________________________________ ______________
    >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
    >************************************************* **************************
    >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    >with the line 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    >
    >
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  5. #5
    Muaadeeb@aol.co
    Guest

    Birthright

    Yes. The article was about incorporating the FR desert realms into BR
    province style domains. Something that I liked from a previous BR campaign
    is that in a BR game based not on Cerilia the Nobles were decendants of the
    Gods.......

    As in say for example Greek mythology where the gods do..or at one
    time..did...get involed in mortal affairs..and those who are blooded are
    decendants or bloodline usurpers.

    Solymr came up with this train of thought and I must admit I am quite taken
    by it. I say use both systems.


    Muaadeeb

  6. #6
    Tommy Ashton
    Guest

    Birthright

    At 10:43 PM 8/23/99 -0400, you wrote:
    >Yes. The article was about incorporating the FR desert realms into BR
    >province style domains. Something that I liked from a previous BR campaign
    >is that in a BR game based not on Cerilia the Nobles were decendants of the
    >Gods.......
    >
    Do you have a number, hell I thought I had all of the Birthright
    Dragons,$%^&#$%^&$%^&! And I just yesterday found the Bloodsilver Dungeon!

    Anal retentive collecting Maniac T
    Tommy Ashton II
    Graduate Research Assistant
    Arizona State University
    Tempe, AZ 85287
    480-965-4244/480-965-2747
    Tommy.Ashton@asu.edu
    "In the end, everything is a gag." - Charlie Chaplin
    "He who loses wealth loses much; he who loses a friend loses more; but he
    that loses courage loses all." - Cervantes
    "Courage is doing what you're afraid to do. There can be no courage unless
    you're scared. - Eddie Rickenbacher
    To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
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  7. #7

    Birthright

    Something brought up by a friend of mine got me to thinking that Charisma
    reasonably should have some effect on RP. I gave it some thought and came
    up with an approach that allows characters to gain or lose RP collected (not
    bloodline strength!) based on Charisma.

    My approach is as follows:
    For each point of Charisma below 9, the regent loses 1 RP from the amount
    collected from his/her domain. However, the regent always collects at least
    half of his bloodline, rounded up.

    For each point of Charisma above 12, the regent can treat his bloodline as
    if it were 1 higher for purposes of determining the RP generated. This does
    not allow a regent to gain more RP than his/her domain generates.

    Examples:

    A regent with a bloodline of 23, domain strength of 32, and Charisma of 5
    would collect 19 RP, rather than 23.

    The same regent with a Charisma of 18 would collect 29 RP.

    A regent with a bloodline of 5, domain strength of 9, and Charisma of 3
    would collect 3 RP (at least half of bloodline strength).

    The same regent with a Charisma of 17 would collect 9 (not 10, as the domain
    does not generate that much regency).


    I feel that this change is small enough to prevent significant abuse, though
    you can lessen its effect even more by having it affect 1 RP for every 2
    points over 12 or below 9.

    This approach gives Charisma a very tangible benefit in the game. In
    Birthright it explains how a charismatic unblooded individual can rule a
    domain. Outside of Birthright it provides a base bloodline strength for
    newly-ennobled (is that a word???) characters. I would give existing rulers
    a bloodline strength based on their overall influence in the game world.

    Herald

    >Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:13:28 -0400 (EDT)
    >From: ron poirier
    >Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Birthright
    >
    >I allowed "starting" nobles (PCs who gained levels and made a successful
    >grab at the brass ring of nobility by earning titles) to
    >begin with the equivalent of "tainted" bloodlines. Meanwhile, heirs who
    >were groomed to rule after their sires had passed on received bloodline
    >scores equivalent to that of the parent. Basically, in my mind this
    >reflected how much skill and experience the character had at ruling a
    >realm. Peasant heroes who make it big don;t know much about ruling
    >baronies effectively -- powerful princes who have been bred, born, and
    >groomed for the job do.
    >
    >In essence, the "bloodline" score becomes a sort of unusual NWP,
    >which a regent may get better (or worse!) at as time goes on.
    >
    > - Ron ^*^


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  8. #8
    ron poirier
    Guest

    Birthright

    An excellent idea! Using Charisma score as a base Bloodline score for new
    nobles. Fits pretty well.

    - Ron ^*^

    At 03:38 PM 8/24/99 PDT, you wrote:
    >Something brought up by a friend of mine got me to thinking that Charisma
    >reasonably should have some effect on RP. I gave it some thought and came
    >up with an approach that allows characters to gain or lose RP collected (not
    >bloodline strength!) based on Charisma.
    >
    >My approach is as follows:
    >For each point of Charisma below 9, the regent loses 1 RP from the amount
    >collected from his/her domain. However, the regent always collects at least
    >half of his bloodline, rounded up.
    >
    >For each point of Charisma above 12, the regent can treat his bloodline as
    >if it were 1 higher for purposes of determining the RP generated. This does
    >not allow a regent to gain more RP than his/her domain generates.
    >
    >Examples:
    >
    >A regent with a bloodline of 23, domain strength of 32, and Charisma of 5
    >would collect 19 RP, rather than 23.
    >
    >The same regent with a Charisma of 18 would collect 29 RP.
    >
    >A regent with a bloodline of 5, domain strength of 9, and Charisma of 3
    >would collect 3 RP (at least half of bloodline strength).
    >
    >The same regent with a Charisma of 17 would collect 9 (not 10, as the domain
    >does not generate that much regency).
    >
    >
    >I feel that this change is small enough to prevent significant abuse, though
    >you can lessen its effect even more by having it affect 1 RP for every 2
    >points over 12 or below 9.
    >
    >This approach gives Charisma a very tangible benefit in the game. In
    >Birthright it explains how a charismatic unblooded individual can rule a
    >domain. Outside of Birthright it provides a base bloodline strength for
    >newly-ennobled (is that a word???) characters. I would give existing rulers
    >a bloodline strength based on their overall influence in the game world.
    >
    > Herald
    >
    >>Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:13:28 -0400 (EDT)
    >>From: ron poirier
    >>Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Birthright
    >>
    >>I allowed "starting" nobles (PCs who gained levels and made a successful
    >>grab at the brass ring of nobility by earning titles) to
    >>begin with the equivalent of "tainted" bloodlines. Meanwhile, heirs who
    >>were groomed to rule after their sires had passed on received bloodline
    >>scores equivalent to that of the parent. Basically, in my mind this
    >>reflected how much skill and experience the character had at ruling a
    >>realm. Peasant heroes who make it big don;t know much about ruling
    >>baronies effectively -- powerful princes who have been bred, born, and
    >>groomed for the job do.
    >>
    >>In essence, the "bloodline" score becomes a sort of unusual NWP,
    >>which a regent may get better (or worse!) at as time goes on.
    >>
    >> - Ron ^*^
    >
    >
    >_________________________________________________ ______________
    >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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    >with the line 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    >
    >
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