Fw: More questions from a BR ne

[Pieter Sleijpen]

My impression on the recieving of the power of the gods at Deismaar is
that it had nothing directly to do with worshipping. If I remember
correctly, it is somewhere written down that the believes were
important. Elven ethiques and way of living are easily combined with
what Reynir and Vorynn stood for and as such they could recieve his
bloodline. If they have other bloodlines, then that might be the result
of bloodtheft. After all it is hinted in several places that devirations
can change if the bloodline becomes more and more from an other
deviration (awnsheighlien are the prime examples).

I like the idea of a 0 bloodline for all elves though, because that fits
perfectly with my vision on them and their closeness to the land.

As for elven priests, I don't think it would expressely forbidden. They
just don't believe in the idea of worship and such. In theory I see no
reason why elves could not be priests.

Pieter Sleijpen

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[Andreas Kjeldsen]

> As for elven priests, I don't think it would expressely forbidden. They
> just don't believe in the idea of worship and such. In theory I see no
> reason why elves could not be priests.

Exactly. IMO&C, the Elves 'believe' in the gods in the sense that
they acknowledge their existence as powerful magical/mythical
entities. However, they choose not to worship them, because 1) they
see them as a 'human thing', an creation of the humans which the
elves should not get involved with and 2) they have their own
'religion' (as in Greatheart, I think it was).

If an individual elf would choose to worship a god, it sould be
possible for him to recieve clerical powers. However, he would be
ostracised by his fellow elves as a traitor, and the established
human churches would likely have nothing to do with him either.
("He's an elf, a pagan. Why would our lord [Aeric/Haelyn/fill in as
needed] bless *him* with his holy gift?")

So I think the reason why there are no known elf priests is that they
either didn't live long enough to tell the story, or they were never
recognized as priests by the 'established' clergy.

Andreas

Andreas Kjeldsen
morkitar@dadlnet.dk
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[Snow .]

>From: "John Sweeney"
>Reply-To: birthright@lists.imagiconline.com
>To:
>Subject: Fw: [BIRTHRIGHT] - More questions from a BR newbie
>Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:49:20 -0400
>
>I was wondering if anyone had considered an alternate system. If >elves
>have the essences of gods in them, why shouldn't they be able >to be
>priests? I figure elves can have a bloodline similar to human >ones, but
>which gave them their own distinct primal connection to >the land. This
>would serve to enhance the separatism between the >races, and provide more
>points of contention between them, in >addition to resolving a few of the
>uncomfortable questions that >having them share bloodlines with humans
>raise. I'm thinking of >writing such a system up, and I was wondering if
>anyone would be >interested in such a thing.

In my campaign, any Elf (PC or exceptional NPC) that wishes to become a
priest can. The problem with the majority of Elves is belief in a deity,
not lacking the ability to become the priest.



>The basics of the system as I'm envisioning it:
>
>ALL elves are blooded. Their "Blood Abilities" will cover elven >racial
>abilities, with a few extras, to even them up with the human >scions. Elves
>did not inherit the human bloodlines because, as they >have never
>worshipped, prayed to, or otherwise been connected to the >gods, the
>god-energy washed right over them like water off a duck's >back during the
>cataclysm at Deismaar. The exception is Rhuobe, who >remained dedicated and
>faithful to Azrai, and was rewarded with the >bloodline of that god (it
>replaces his elven blood-heritage) True >elven "scions" will always have a
>blood rating higher than "tainted" >(the standard elf) Since the fall of
>Elven power, VERY few True->blooded elves remain, which is another reason
>for many elves' hatred >of humans.

I'd give all the Elves the Elven racial abilities from Birthright
automatically, because to take away a base ability because of poor bloodline
is a serious penalty and they already cannot dual class or reach any level
without restriction, or be of any class. I'd recommend giving them
additional powers if this is the way you wanna go in your setting. If you
want to model the powers after nature, perhaps giving Elves druid/ranger
like abilities, but without taking away from those two classes....; whatever
works for you and your players.

>Dwarves also have a bloodline which pre-dates Deismaar. Like elves, >all
>dwarves are blooded, but dwarves also have priests and gods. The >god
>Moradin is a dwarf of ancient antiquity who rose to godhood, and
> >shepherded his people from on high. The rest of the minor gods in >the
>dwarven pantheon are similar dwarves, and the heaven-born >children of
>those deified dwarves. (Elves, because they are so >individualistic, never
>accomplished this)

The simplest system, is that Dwarves are willing to believe in powers, while
Elves are not (this being true for 99.89% of the population).

>Goblins, who are distantly related to humans, absorbed the same
>god->energies as the humans, but many of them absorbed the blood of Azrai
> >and became awnsheghlien, or were wiped out in the chaos following >the
>discovery of Bloodtheft. Therefore, there are few blooded >goblins
>remaining...and goblins still worship their pantheon of >minor gods and
>spirits, in addition to some veneration of the new >human pantheon
>(especially Belinik)

Goblins are as closely related to humans as they are to Dwarves, Elves or
any other similar race.. I'd agree, most of the Goblins at Deismar followed
Azrai, so any who survive or acquired those bloodlines ie, The Spider, would
be ansheghlien by now, or long dead.

>I expected something like this, and was planning to implement pretty >much
>exactly the same thing under the system I was developing. I >need to go buy
>Priest/Magecraft books and read those rules so I can >use them.


>I'll check that out, but still it seems rather silly that I would >have to
>go on the internet to get support for something that was >included in the
>original boxed set. "Ruins of Empire" should have >included at least a
>mention of those specialized units in the >listings for those kingdoms.
>It's just a minor gripe anyway, I was >planning on just having them replace
>a unit of knights or something.

Actually, you don't need to use the net for support. The units were
included to add flavor and show by example. The setting is dynamic, and
changes in each campaign world. Obviously, the unit would have to be
superior in some way, even if only a minor change, otherwise a regent would
just muster the original unit. Therefore, the unit will likely have
limitations upon it, perhaps costing more to muster or maintain, or being
limited in the number of units of this type available. Perhaps you have a
Patriot unit, that costs less to muster and maintain, due to their
patriotism, but if the unit is lost in foreign territory, like a Levy, will
cost the province something. I believe, as long as it is semi-balanced,
these cards represent TSR/WotC's efforts to show you the setting is yours,
do with it as you will.


>I think you misunderstood my question. According the the BR >rulebook,
>"True mages (and regent mages) function under the same >rules and
>restrictions detailed in the Player's Handbook. They may >choose to be
>mages or specialist wizards of any school *except >illusion and
>divination*" [emphasis mine](pg 12). Similarly, under >the class heading
>for "Magician", it states, "Magicians are >automatically considered to be
>specialists in the schools of >illusion and divination,..." (pg 13).
>Therefore, I ask again, how >can Caliedhe Dosiere be a diviner? Is he a
>magician with no access >to realm magic or 3rd level magic other than
>divination/illusion, or >is he an exception to the rule?

I'd just assume the book is a misprint, and was meant to say xxxx/magician.

>The point I was trying to make is Humans would not accept a 1/2 elf
> >leader. They would rebel against the "changeling", and exile the >poor
>deposed regent back to his "faerie kin" (if they even let >him/her live).

Perhaps this is true, in a land with a population of mostly humans. What of
a land with a mostly Elven population, or a land bordered by Elves who have
strong influence in the area? If the regency was passed to an Elf or
Half-Elf, the people might rebel in some lands, but in others the people are
more tolerant. If you want to run a campaing in which Humans and
Elves/Half-Elves are in a genocidal war, because they just cannot get along,
the end result will be no Elves in your setting. Still the battles and
conflict would be a very interesting background for the setting, and could
create any number of plots, counterplots and story seeds in which to
entangle your players.


>And again, has this stuff already been discussed before?
>
>--
>Johnny

I'd guess some of it has been, but if you've got a question, post it. If
you've got any ideas, opinions or what have you, we'd appreciate the
activity on the list..

*Hugs²*,
Snow.


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