Ships?

[epicsoul]

That's a good addendum. However, I still think that the easiest one is this; if you can overbuild your fortresses compared to the level of the province, why can't you do the same with your shipyards? Just increase the cost and maintenance of them.

[The incredible, edible Phil]

Venice was for a great period of time the largest port within catholic nations (in the 12th and 13th century it was also the largest city within catholic nations).

If it is set at 2.5 * province level, Anuire can nbuild galleons at the Imperial City, Bhaine in Taeghas, Anuire in Avanil, Calrie in Aerenwe, Ciliene in Diemed, and 1 or 2 provinces in Boeruine.

[Cardinal Malik]

The idea that only a level 8 city can build a galleon is just dumb. According to the naval battle rules many realms have large navies. The city of Ilien, who's port is supposed to be the greatest in southern Anuire, can't build ships according to that rule. If it was added to "prevent" players from having huge navies, then it is an even dumber rule. Placing limits on a player is a sure way to get them to abandon your game. Besides, the fleet cost rules pay for the ships themselves, not the units you put on them. You can have all the ships you can afford but if you have no units to put on them, your navy is going to suck. Lift the limits on ship building, If a player wants to build navies and puts his resources and energy in that direction, there's no reason not to let them.
Besides, if you can exceed the castle rating beyond the province level, you should be able to do the same with ship building.

[Thomas_Percy]

Originally posted by Angelbialaska+Jan 26 2005, 05:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Angelbialaska &#064; Jan 26 2005, 05:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> There are fewer than 150 true mages in Cerilia (Book of Magecraft). [/b]

And:
<!--QuoteBegin-Angelbialaska
OIT in Diemed
Total number of clergy: 221
About half of the clergy should be level 0, which in D&D probably means Experts, while the other half (about 110) consist of spellcasting clerics. [/quote]
So, mages are rare.
Clerics not so rare. There are a druids too, and a lot of monsters.

And even if we assume, that all they are rare, i have a strange feeling, that among PCs there will be a lot of spellcasters, because players like magic.
And I have second strange feeling, that tens of gold bars speneded on the galeons are enough to hire one spellcaster to sink a fleet down.

So imho ships should be cheap as other cannon foder and available at every province with a shipyard and access to the wood (thanks to the forest-type or a trade route to the forest).

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Thomas_Percy@Jan 26 2005, 05:28 PM
Clerics not so rare. There are a druids too,

Druids are part of the cleric numbers. See 2nd ed material Druids are clerics of Erik. That is even in the playtest document or the latest version of Chap 1 there are no free ranging druids in Birthright they get their power and abilities from their patron deity, Erik.

Essentially the priests of Erik are divided amongst clerics and druids. These are rare in all but Rjurik lands so comng across druids throughout Cerilia is pretty rare in itself.

[Raesene Andu]

One thing with ships, in my games I have always used their muster costs (e.g. 15 GB for a Galleon) to be their BUILD cost, not the price you have to pay if you want to buy the ship for someone else.

I make the PURCHASE price an addition 1/3 higher than the build cost. So using the galleon for example, it would cost 15 GB to make, and 20 GB to buy outright.

Also, it is just me or do the stats for Zebec really not match up well with the Galleon, despite costing 2 GB more to build a Zebec. It was the same way in 2E of course, but I would have expected more from a ship that is built specifically for war. I guess those Khinasi just aren&#39;t good shipbuilders.

[irdeggman]

I&#39;ve always thought that the market value of a ship should be twice what you had to pay to build it Similarly to the way the craft skill works. That way it is mechanically similar to the core rules and a handy profit is made by a shipyard.

And yes I don&#39;t quite like the Zebec&#39;s numbers either. Should have more bunks and hits, IMO. Less cargo than a galleon but more troop capacity and a stronger hull. It is as pure a warship as you get, while the galleon can function as a cargo ship too, albeit an expensive one.

[Raesene Andu]

I have no problem with the market value being x2 the build cost. Sure makes those shipyards important to realms, and gives those high level coastal provinces a nice industry (ship building) to boost their income.

It could also provide a solution to Ilien&#39;s gold problem. All the count needs to do is built one galleon a season, sell it, and he makes an extra 15 GB income, enough to cover the cost of his shipyard, and his other assets.

[epicsoul]

Solving Ilien&#39;s lack of gold thru ship-building is how I actually made ends meet in one campaign I played. That, plus alchemy could turn a tidy sum for Ilien. Other players often didn&#39;t want to spend the time on ship-building, or needed to rebuild fleets quickly, after an engagement. However, I never sold them for twice their value. Usually, I would only get about a 3 or 4 GB profit for a galleon, 1 or 1.5 for a caravel. Finding buyers was difficult; except once the pirates started attacking, and then, man, I couldn&#39;t build enough of them&#33; Guilders were usually happy to buy off of me... and I suspect one or two of &#39;em WERE the pirates. Rogr turned a blind eye to the buyers, as long as the economy flowed.

He also had the deal worked out that El-hadid would get a "favoured" rate, and would only pay cost plus 10%.

It got dull sometimes spending so many court actions on build actions. But, ah well.

[The Jew]

I think a rate of 30%-60% is about right, depending on demand. I can&#39;t imagine spending 30 GB&#39;s for a Galleon, it really does not seem worth it. You could conquer a medium sized realm for the cost of 2 of them. 25 GB&#39;s is about the most I could see paying, and then only if I was really desperate.