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  1. #21
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by irdeggman@Jan 26 2005, 08:16 PM
    Ariadne, I like them. Nice and compact and still have the feel of a prestige class and special theme.
    Thanks. Maybe they form slowly...


    I wonder if the lawbringer might benefit from the paladin of haelyn ability to freely mete out justice. Just a thought.
    No bad idea, since the Lawbringer might be seen as something between cleric and paladin it would fit in my opinion...

    I'll add it...
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  2. #22
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    I love how each Cerelian deity has different aspects which a follower can emphasize more or less, be they cleric, paladin, or mere adept. Perfect fodder for good roleplay and PrCs.
    Have you thought about converting some of the orders mentioned in the Book of Priestcraft. Particularly Im thinking of the two orders of Nesirie, the Sisters of the Veil(who emphasize dealing with mourning and loss) and the Speakers (who emphasize Nesirie's nuetrality and diplomacy). Im playing with a cleric considering soon joining our DMs version of the Veiled Sisters, so we'd love to hear everyones take on that PrC.


    My only other comment is to wonder why PrCs have to start at 5th or above level. I understand it is not so prestigous to have a PrC that a second level player could take. But BR is such a low-level world. Only rather strong NPCs will have even started into a PrC. An epic PC who reaches the end of a ten level PrC will be a hero of the ages (not a dime a dozen as in the Forgettable Realms). I think a few 3 or 5 level PrCs that are available earlier would be a great flavor addition. By limiting the requirements in a manner other than something level dependent we could keep them prestigous and/or exclusive. A requirement like must be a royal guard of a certain realm or have studied with such and such group would do the trick. You dont want every 2nd level halfling you run across to be a "Shadow Guard" or some such thing, but a low level group in halfing society just drips with flavor. Of course these comments are most geared towards making flavorful NPCs, but not too much.
    Are 5+ levels a hard line for PrCs? Is there an example of a low level setting like BR which slavishly kept this line?

  3. #23
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    Danip said:

    Have you thought about converting some of the orders mentioned in the Book of Priestcraft. Particularly Im thinking of the two orders of Nesirie, the Sisters of the Veil(who emphasize dealing with mourning and loss) and the Speakers (who emphasize Nesirie's nuetrality and diplomacy). Im playing with a cleric considering soon joining our DMs version of the Veiled Sisters, so we'd love to hear everyones take on that PrC.
    Yes, I tried to address several Orders of the BoP. One Order, I created only because they were mentioned in the BoP, is the Winter Wolf. Since Kriesha can’t have druids, only rangers or clerics, I thought of this niche in form of a PrC to address this particular order. I thought a long time about the Sister’s of the Veil too, but must say, I had a lack of ideas for something that makes a PrC of this Order some kind of really special…

    Maybe you can post your DM’s homebrewed PrC in the Royal Library.

    My only other comment is to wonder why PrCs have to start at 5th or above level. I understand it is not so prestigous to have a PrC that a second level player could take. But BR is such a low-level world. Only rather strong NPCs will have even started into a PrC.
    I fear, WotC has written that requirement in some small printed part of the DMG 3.5. A prestige class is what it’s name promises: A prestige. Making a PrC available to “any” 2nd level character, even, if this world is generally low level, would “kill” this “prestige” thought. Well, on Cerilia your 6th level PC can be compared with some kind of demigod and would mean, generally not much PrC’s are around. I tried to make most PrC’s available as early as possible (5th or 6th level) and I’m completely against equal requirements as can be found for the Hierophant or Archmage, but I can’t go lower with the prerequs…
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  4. #24
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ariadne@Jan 28 2005, 10:33 PM
    I fear, WotC has written that requirement in some small printed part of the DMG 3.5.
    The rule (or guideline) regarding Prestige clss requirements is on pg. 197 of the 3.5 Edition DMG. It doesn't give any specific reason, just states that when designing Prestige Classes you should ensure that characters must be at least 5th level before they can take it.
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  5. #25
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    If you look at how prestige classes have evolved since first being introduced in 3.0 it is an interesting vision.

    The 3.0 DMG pg 27 was much more vague in its level requirements "This almost always requires -in effect - that a character be mid-level (say around 5th or 5th level)"

    The 3.5 text is very specific on this and the fact that teh prerequsites must be met before taking a level of prestige class - that the first level of prestige class can't be taken earlier than 6thcharacter level.

    The flood of prestige classes introduced at first (and pretty much until 3.5) were without a doubt all across the board. They were supposed to be at least as powerful as the standard class. Some were much more powerful and some not as much while the prequisites didn't reflect this. Especially in the 3rd party products but also in Dragon Magazine (when produced by WotC).

    The new system is pretty specific while not have set standards as regards to number of levelsof a prestige class. In 3.0 IIRC they were pretty mucheither 5 or 10 levels in progression. I believe towards the end they started to expand on this and introduce more options. While 5 and 10 level progressions are still the most common follow on WotC 3.5 products introduced many with a broader variation. For example the Complete Warrior had Exotic Weapon Master and Hulking Hurler (3 levels). What it comes down to is how many levels are necessary to capture the theme of the prestige class.

    As far the 5th level prerequisite being "guidelines", well in as much as any of the rules are guidelines this is one. It is just very specific in 3.5.

    One has to remember that the use of prestige classes is totally optional and up to the prevue of the DM. (3.5 DMG pg 176).
    Duane Eggert

  6. #26
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    One thing they did learn in 3.5 from 3.0 was to make prestige classes more accessible. Some of the classes really demanded that a character devote most (if not all) his skill points and feats to take the PrC.

    When it comes to skills, I choose that characters need only meet a skill bonus equivalent to the number of ranks required (requirement of 8 ranks = +8). It makes for characters having an easier time reaching the PrCs (mostly the fighter types) and represents that talent is also a factor rather than just skill.

  7. #27
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    Raesene Andu schrieb:



    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    > You can view the entire thread at:

    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...ST&f=24&t=2956

    >

    > Raesene Andu wrote:

    > QUOTE (Ariadne @ Jan 28 2005, 10:33 PM) I fear, WotC has written that requirement in some small printed part of the DMG 3.5.

    >-----------------------------

    >

    >

    > The rule (or guideline) regarding Prestige clss requirements is on pg. 197 of the 3.5 Edition DMG. It doesn`t give any specific reason, just states that when designing Prestige Classes you should ensure that characters must be at least 5th level before they can take it.

    >

    Wouldn´t most regents and blooded scions easily qualify for the

    prerequisite "5th level+" if their scion levels of the BRCS are counted in?

    bye

    Michael

  8. #28
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ConjurerDragon@Jan 30 2005, 03:00 AM
    Wouldn´t most regents and blooded scions easily qualify for the
    prerequisite "5th level+" if their scion levels of the BRCS are counted in?
    Only if they were major or great scions, minor scions don't take scion levels.
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