Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1

    Gorgon on the battlefield

    GeeMan wrote:
    >
    > Alaric wrote:
    >

    >
    > I've been fiddling around with converting standard AD&D stats into their warcard
    > equivalents. From what I can tell the Gorgon as a warcard by himself would look like
    > this:
    >
    > Move: 1 (he is very slow, his biggest weakness)
    > Defence: 10 (assuming he could be hit at all due to his resistence)
    > Melee: 4
    > Missile: 2 (gaze attack)
    > Morale: Unstoppable
    > Hits: 3
    One thing to remember about the Gorgon, for all that he is said to be
    slow, I don't believe it. For example, his dexterity is still 15, which
    implies he's only slow when he wants to be (and that he was one fast SoB
    in his prime)

    > Melee: This one is a bit tough. I think you have to figure out how much "average"
    > damage the unit would do, which means you have to come up with a way of averaging
    > their THAC0 with the damage that they do by weapon type. THAC0 expressed as a
    > percentage * average damage divided by 50.
    >
    > The Gorgon, for instance, is going to hit 95% of the time (a 1 is always a miss) and
    > do an average of 5.5+8+2=16 (rounded up damage) per hit. He generally gets 5/2
    > attack, so in a battle round (five normal melee rounds) he will hit almost 12 times
    > for around 192 hp of damage.

    OK, when I look at the Gorgon I assume that he's going to have taken the
    time to learn all the tricks of the trade. As I've said before, these
    longlived enemies (dragons, awnshegh, and just plain ol' powerful elves)
    are going to have had many years to learn how to bend the rules. Why
    wouldn't the Gorgon be considered a Grandmaster with his Two-handed
    sword (which, incidentally, he uses one handed, despite his size). That
    gives him an extra attack every round, bringing his attacks to 7/2. And
    his damage is going to average 6.5+3+5+8= 23 per hit. The damage is even
    more astronomical, unfortunately. Also, you need to account for the fact
    that when surrounded he will be able to use an all-around attack, and
    heroic melee rules as well (I'm not totally sure on them, as I don't use
    'em, but fighting when outnumbered 100-400:1 seems pretty fair to him).


    I hesitate to use the Gorgon as a military force, however. I give him
    full credit for magical abilities. After all, if the players can
    roll-play, then so can their enemies. Now I totally understand people
    who wish to limit the abilities of the gorgon on a roleplaying basis,
    seeing that his personality and termperament wouldn't allow it. I just
    take a different tact. In my view, the G-man will generally be at the
    point in the battle where the leaders are, and fighting to get them
    through the heart. As it has been shown, the Gorgon is a good enough
    fighter that every attack can be a called shot to the heart and he'll
    still hit each and every time, barring a 1 (which shouldn't be anything
    other than a miss for him). So it's more of a 1-1 thing with him anyway.
    Thx,
    AlaricTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

  2. #2
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,181
    Downloads
    4
    Uploads
    7

    Gorgon on the battlefield

    Alaric wrote:

    > One thing to remember about the Gorgon, for all that he is said to be
    > slow, I don't believe it. For example, his dexterity is still 15, which
    > implies he's only slow when he wants to be (and that he was one fast SoB
    > in his prime)

    True. It's an interesting dichotomy; dextrous yet (supposedly) slow....

    The rationalization for his ground speed is pretty straightforward--he's made of rock.


    > OK, when I look at the Gorgon I assume that he's going to have taken the
    > time to learn all the tricks of the trade. As I've said before, these
    > longlived enemies (dragons, awnshegh, and just plain ol' powerful elves)
    > are going to have had many years to learn how to bend the rules. Why
    > wouldn't the Gorgon be considered a Grandmaster with his Two-handed
    > sword (which, incidentally, he uses one handed, despite his size). That
    > gives him an extra attack every round, bringing his attacks to 7/2. And
    > his damage is going to average 6.5+3+5+8= 23 per hit. The damage is even
    > more astronomical, unfortunately. Also, you need to account for the fact
    > that when surrounded he will be able to use an all-around attack, and
    > heroic melee rules as well (I'm not totally sure on them, as I don't use
    > 'em, but fighting when outnumbered 100-400:1 seems pretty fair to him).

    Also good points. I was being conservative in my estimates, probably far too
    conservative. It is, after all, the ultimate foe in the campaign setting... a little
    extravagence is probably warrented.

    > I hesitate to use the Gorgon as a military force, however. I give him
    > full credit for magical abilities. After all, if the players can
    > roll-play, then so can their enemies. Now I totally understand people
    > who wish to limit the abilities of the gorgon on a roleplaying basis,
    > seeing that his personality and termperament wouldn't allow it. I just
    > take a different tact. In my view, the G-man will generally be at the
    > point in the battle where the leaders are, and fighting to get them
    > through the heart. As it has been shown, the Gorgon is a good enough
    > fighter that every attack can be a called shot to the heart and he'll
    > still hit each and every time, barring a 1 (which shouldn't be anything
    > other than a miss for him). So it's more of a 1-1 thing with him anyway.

    You definately have to be careful when using the Gorgon. My campaign hasn't advanced to
    the point where players could even consider going up against him, though he remains the
    diabolic puppetmaster operating in the shadows. Maybe someday....

    Gary
    To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

  3. #3
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,181
    Downloads
    4
    Uploads
    7

    Gorgon on the battlefield

    GeeMan wrote:

    > > One thing to remember about the Gorgon, for all that he is said to be
    > > slow, I don't believe it. For example, his dexterity is still 15, which
    > > implies he's only slow when he wants to be (and that he was one fast SoB
    > > in his prime)
    >
    > True. It's an interesting dichotomy; dextrous yet (supposedly) slow....
    >
    > The rationalization for his ground speed is pretty straightforward--he's made of rock.

    Sorry, I meant to come back and make another comment or two on this point.

    Because Gorgy is made of stone, it seems like that would affects his dexterity as well as
    his movement rate, eh? Well, for all we know, maybe it has. Raesene could have had an 18
    dex before Deismaar. Who knows?

    The other thing is that maybe he isn't slow. Maybe he's _careful_. He is, after all,
    walking around on hooves. Maybe he has a tendancy to skitter around and slip when he runs?
    Wouldn't that be funny! I'm sure the Gorgon doing a pratfall isn't exactly what people have
    in mind in the ultimate villain of BR, so you have to slow that boy down....

    Gary
    To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

  4. #4
    Herald Williams
    Guest

    Gorgon on the battlefield

    I've always looked at it this way: he doesn't walk or run all that fast
    (he's hooved, huge, and let's face it, doesn't really have much need to
    run in any case) but his reaction time and agility are still quite
    impressive. He can duck, dodge, twist, and turn quite well. After all,
    he's had 1500 years of combat training and actual fighting to learn how
    to not be where the attack lands. Plus, his hand-eye coordination is
    bound to be good as well, since he's probably the equivalent of
    specialized with most missile weapons.

    Herald

    GeeMan wrote:
    >
    > GeeMan wrote:
    >
    > > > One thing to remember about the Gorgon, for all that he is said to be
    > > > slow, I don't believe it. For example, his dexterity is still 15, which
    > > > implies he's only slow when he wants to be (and that he was one fast SoB
    > > > in his prime)
    > >
    > > True. It's an interesting dichotomy; dextrous yet (supposedly) slow....
    > >
    > > The rationalization for his ground speed is pretty straightforward--he's made of rock.
    >
    > Sorry, I meant to come back and make another comment or two on this point.
    >
    > Because Gorgy is made of stone, it seems like that would affects his dexterity as well as
    > his movement rate, eh? Well, for all we know, maybe it has. Raesene could have had an 18
    > dex before Deismaar. Who knows?
    >
    > The other thing is that maybe he isn't slow. Maybe he's _careful_. He is, after all,
    > walking around on hooves. Maybe he has a tendancy to skitter around and slip when he runs?
    > Wouldn't that be funny! I'm sure the Gorgon doing a pratfall isn't exactly what people have
    > in mind in the ultimate villain of BR, so you have to slow that boy down....
    >
    > Gary
    >
    > ************************************************** *************************
    > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    > with the line 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

  5. #5
    Craig Dalrymple
    Guest

    Gorgon on the battlefield

    I think that the Gorgon would be a nightmare in any battle situation. I've
    never really thought on anyone save for my players facing him at some point
    in the future; and even at that it would most likely be the toughest warrior
    going one on one against him.

    I have actually thought that out and figured on what would be needed to give
    the warrior a slim chance of surviving or at least challenging the Gorgon.
    This is what I figured. Strength, Enlarge, Bless, Enchant Weapon, Haste,
    Stoneskin, Protection from Evil, Chant/Prayer (in effect), Potion of
    Heroism, A cleric standing nearby to Heal him during the fight, boots of
    jumping, etc... to infinity.

    This is a top of my head list and there was more when I first thought this
    out. I figured that spells like Enchant Weapon would be needed to
    temporarily give the player enough mojo to actually harm the Gorgon. Even
    assuming that the warrior's sword is already magical before the further
    enchantment. Also the armor would be magical, blah, blah, blah.

    I think that for someone to actually threaten the Gorgon as he is written;
    it would take the cooperative effort of many of the most powerful wizards
    and priests of multiple nations just to get that person tough enough to
    survive the first two rounds. Look what he did to Michael Roele in "Iron
    Throne", that didn't take long now did it???? Even if you ascribe to a more
    traditional main rules idea of what got rockbut and M. Roele together, it
    couldn't have been pretty for the "good guys" that day...

    Craig
    To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

  6. #6
    Soviet
    Guest

    Gorgon on the battlefield

    You know after reading all your post about the Gorgon in the battlefield... well
    it evoked an image:
    The Gorgon sitting in his mount a top a hill bringing down death with his eyes,
    (much like Balor in Slaine: The Horned God mini-series)...
    "But the Formors, too had magical powers...
    Their commander's venomous eye..
    Destroyed anyone on whom its look fell."
    I felt I had to say this, don't know why.. but I had to say it....
    now continue with your discussion..

    Craig Dalrymple wrote:

    > I think that the Gorgon would be a nightmare in any battle situation. I've
    > never really thought on anyone save for my players facing him at some point
    > in the future; and even at that it would most likely be the toughest warrior
    > going one on one against him.
    >
    > I have actually thought that out and figured on what would be needed to give
    > the warrior a slim chance of surviving or at least challenging the Gorgon.
    > This is what I figured. Strength, Enlarge, Bless, Enchant Weapon, Haste,
    > Stoneskin, Protection from Evil, Chant/Prayer (in effect), Potion of
    > Heroism, A cleric standing nearby to Heal him during the fight, boots of
    > jumping, etc... to infinity.
    >
    > This is a top of my head list and there was more when I first thought this
    > out. I figured that spells like Enchant Weapon would be needed to
    > temporarily give the player enough mojo to actually harm the Gorgon. Even
    > assuming that the warrior's sword is already magical before the further
    > enchantment. Also the armor would be magical, blah, blah, blah.
    >
    > I think that for someone to actually threaten the Gorgon as he is written;
    > it would take the cooperative effort of many of the most powerful wizards
    > and priests of multiple nations just to get that person tough enough to
    > survive the first two rounds. Look what he did to Michael Roele in "Iron
    > Throne", that didn't take long now did it???? Even if you ascribe to a more
    > traditional main rules idea of what got rockbut and M. Roele together, it
    > couldn't have been pretty for the "good guys" that day...
    >
    > Craig
    >
    > ************************************************** *************************
    > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    > with the line 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

  7. #7

    Gorgon on the battlefield

    Craig Dalrymple wrote:
    >
    > I think that the Gorgon would be a nightmare in any battle situation. I've
    > never really thought on anyone save for my players facing him at some point
    > in the future; and even at that it would most likely be the toughest warrior
    > going one on one against him.
    >
    > I have actually thought that out and figured on what would be needed to give
    > the warrior a slim chance of surviving or at least challenging the Gorgon.
    > This is what I figured. Strength, Enlarge, Bless, Enchant Weapon, Haste,
    > Stoneskin, Protection from Evil, Chant/Prayer (in effect), Potion of
    > Heroism, A cleric standing nearby to Heal him during the fight, boots of
    > jumping, etc... to infinity.


    Unfortunately, I give the Gorgon enough credit that in any real fight
    he'd be able to do a lot of that same stuff: Improved Blink, Haste,
    Improved Strength, Enlarge, Stoneskin, Contingency: Stoneskin,
    Protection from Good, a Potion to Double his HP, Potions of Healing (as
    per the Heal spell), and a plethora of things that aren't even available
    to the PCs. And even then, who said the Gorgon wouldn't bring in his
    allies and lieutenants if there was even the slightest chance the PCs
    were going to win (in fact, that's more or less what happened when the
    party battled him. The minions took care of the magical support, golems,
    and elementals on the party's side. He ended up leaving the battlefield
    (actually going elsewhere, but close enough), after having taken the
    bloodlines of a powerful paladin of Cuireacen and the High Priest of the
    Unified Church of Haelyn (mentioned in some of my earlier posts). All in
    all, he won even though he 'retreated'.
    Thx,
    AlaricTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Chap 6 - Should units be allowed to stack on the battlefield?
    By irdeggman in forum BRCS 3.0/3.5 Edition
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 04-24-2008, 04:50 AM
  2. The Battlefield
    By Rowan in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-14-2008, 06:12 AM
  3. PCs on the Battlefield (honor and disgrace)
    By Birthright-L in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-08-2004, 08:30 PM
  4. Charging On The Battlefield
    By MJH in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-04-2004, 06:04 PM
  5. The battlefield
    By jonathan.w.ingram@exgate in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-21-1998, 10:12 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.