Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    85
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Mages vs Wizards Redux

    Last year I was involved in a discussion on this list concerning
    what happens when an unblooded magician suddenly acquires a
    blood line.

    Some few of you were of the opinion that the Magician would not
    not automatically become a Wizard. Would those of you who
    participated in the thread address these 2 questions please ?

    1) Does the character have a choice between the 2 classes
    at the time when he acquires a new blood line ?
    2) If the Magician can not gain true magic through blooding
    how does he do so short of a wish or deity intervention ?

    Thanks
    Don Lail
    To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

  2. #2
    Pieter Sleijpen
    Guest

    Mages vs Wizards Redux

    J. D. Lail wrote:
    >
    > Last year I was involved in a discussion on this list concerning
    > what happens when an unblooded magician suddenly acquires a
    > blood line.
    >
    > Some few of you were of the opinion that the Magician would not
    > not automatically become a Wizard. Would those of you who
    > participated in the thread address these 2 questions please ?
    >
    > 1) Does the character have a choice between the 2 classes
    > at the time when he acquires a new blood line ?
    > 2) If the Magician can not gain true magic through blooding
    > how does he do so short of a wish or deity intervention ?

    I have not participated in that discussion, but I do know that blooded
    persons can opt to become a magician instead of a true wizard. That
    means that the two things are totally different classes. So the awnsers
    would be "no" and "not" in my eyes. This because you can not dual class
    between classes within the same group. If you really want to, you might
    let him relearn magic in some sort of dual classing.

    Pieter SleijpenTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

  3. #3
    JNeighb934@aol.co
    Guest

    Mages vs Wizards Redux

    In a message dated 06/11/99 3:12:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
    jlail@foothills.net writes:

    > 1) Does the character have a choice between the 2 classes
    > at the time when he acquires a new blood line ?

    Rogr Aglondier of Ilien is an example of a magician who became a wizard after
    gaining a bloodline. I would allow a character in this situation to become a
    mage, meaning he loses the specialization benefits, or to continue as an
    illusionist or diviner but not specializing in both schools like a magician,
    and also subject to opposition schools from then on; but of course the trade
    off is they can now cast true magic from other schools.To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

  4. #4
    Brian Stoner
    Guest

    Mages vs Wizards Redux

    "J. D. Lail" wrote:

    > 1) Does the character have a choice between the 2 classes
    > at the time when he acquires a new blood line ?

    Yes. Since blooded characters are allowed to choose whether to be a Magician
    or Wizard when initially created, the same should hold if a non-blooded
    character recieves a bloodline later on. The PC should lose the special
    abilities, etc. that come with being a magician and become a regular wizard if
    they choose to do so. As role played, the PC should not instantly know they
    can cast true magic, but learn it as their relationship with magic has
    changed. Then, they should realize the choice they have, but also the
    consequences of the choice. Choosing to follow the path of a true wizard means
    less time studying illusion and divination magic because of all the new magic
    to explore. I would only allow the choice to be made once. After the
    character has made this life-long decision, they must stick with it...barring
    any unusual incidents in the future. (heh, as if unusual incidents were truly
    unusual in fantasy).

    Dearnen
    To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

  5. #5
    Memnoch
    Guest

    Mages vs Wizards Redux

    - -----Original Message-----
    From: Brian Stoner
    To: birthright@lists.imagiconline.com
    Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 1:57 PM
    Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Mages vs Wizards Redux


    >
    >
    >"J. D. Lail" wrote:
    >
    >> 1) Does the character have a choice between the 2 classes
    >> at the time when he acquires a new blood line ?
    >
    If you are using the dual-classing rules "as is", no. The magician in
    question that gains the bloodline would merely gain the bloodline and become
    a blooded magician. The difference between Magicians and Wizards is a
    matter of training, and one cannot dual-class within the same class group.
    Although, you may want to allow the magician the option of dropping his
    magician class entirely and starting over as a wizard, at first level.

    Memnoch
    To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

  6. #6
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,181
    Downloads
    4
    Uploads
    7

    Mages vs Wizards Redux

    Memnoch wrote:

    > >"J. D. Lail" wrote:
    > >
    > >> 1) Does the character have a choice between the 2 classes
    > >> at the time when he acquires a new blood line ?
    > >
    > If you are using the dual-classing rules "as is", no. The magician in
    > question that gains the bloodline would merely gain the bloodline and become
    > a blooded magician. The difference between Magicians and Wizards is a
    > matter of training, and one cannot dual-class within the same class group.
    > Although, you may want to allow the magician the option of dropping his
    > magician class entirely and starting over as a wizard, at first level.

    Technically, you're right. Though, I personally don't think the differences
    between the magician class and the "true" wizard class is really significant
    enough to make them a whole other character class. Magicians as a class really
    exist because they can't be mages, which is unlike any other characer class. It
    seems unfair to me to keep a character a magician if he somehow gains a
    bloodline and wants to use true magic, especially with the example of Rogr
    Aglondier out there. RA might have not been a real magician when he gained his
    bloodline, or he might have changed his class in violation of the rules. We
    really don't know.

    I'd suggest, however, that there might be a compromise. What if you let a
    character change his class from magician to mage when he gains a bloodline
    provided that he:

    1. Loses all weapon proficiencies that are allowed to magicians and not mages.
    (I'd let him pick new ones, but I'm a softy.)
    2. Loses his spell bonuses for divination/illusion schools.
    3. Drops 1 level in experience the same way he does when changing alignment.

    This would seem to be a nice solution to both the possibility of a character
    gaining a bloodline AND explain how Aglondier has the write up that he does....

    Gary
    To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

  7. #7
    Memnoch
    Guest

    Mages vs Wizards Redux

    - -----Original Message-----
    From: GeeMan
    To: birthright@lists.imagiconline.com
    Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 9:04 PM
    Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Mages vs Wizards Redux


    >Technically, you're right. Though, I personally don't think the
    differences
    >between the magician class and the "true" wizard class is really
    significant
    >enough to make them a whole other character class. Magicians as a class
    really
    >exist because they can't be mages, which is unlike any other characer
    class. It
    >seems unfair to me to keep a character a magician if he somehow gains a
    >bloodline and wants to use true magic, especially with the example of Rogr
    >Aglondier out there. RA might have not been a real magician when he gained
    his
    >bloodline, or he might have changed his class in violation of the rules.
    We
    >really don't know.
    >
    >I'd suggest, however, that there might be a compromise. What if you let a
    >character change his class from magician to mage when he gains a bloodline
    >provided that he:
    >
    >1. Loses all weapon proficiencies that are allowed to magicians and not
    mages.
    >(I'd let him pick new ones, but I'm a softy.)
    >2. Loses his spell bonuses for divination/illusion schools.
    >3. Drops 1 level in experience the same way he does when changing
    alignment.
    >
    >This would seem to be a nice solution to both the possibility of a
    character
    >gaining a bloodline AND explain how Aglondier has the write up that he
    does....


    Well, the way that I explain the phenomenon of Rogr, is at the time he
    gained a bloodline, he was merely an apprentice, and not a mage (as of yet).
    Then, he finished his training, and became a mage (shades of Luke Skywalker
    here). As for the compromise, that is up to the individual DM. If an
    starting unblooded character wants to be a mage, he should pick up a class,
    like thief, that will allow him to dual-class at a later time. But then
    again, that's just me.

    Memnoch

    >Gary
    >
    >************************************************* **************************
    >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    >with the line 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    >
    To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Nether-Netherland
    Posts
    309
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Mages vs Wizards Redux

    > Technically, you're right. Though, I personally don't think the differences
    > between the magician class and the "true" wizard class is really significant
    > enough to make them a whole other character class. Magicians as a class really
    > exist because they can't be mages, which is unlike any other characer class. It
    > seems unfair to me to keep a character a magician if he somehow gains a
    > bloodline and wants to use true magic, especially with the example of Rogr
    > Aglondier out there. RA might have not been a real magician when he gained his
    > bloodline, or he might have changed his class in violation of the rules. We
    > really don't know.

    About Rogr ("Moore") Aglondier: he's only level 3 in the RoE booklet, and
    he seems to have been ruling for quite some years already in there (the
    phrasing used in the RoE suggests to me it happened quite some time ago),
    so maybe he was only still an apprentice when he got the old man's
    bloodline.

    Not that that gets us anywhere or anything...

    - the Falcon
    To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
    with the line

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Why wizards are weak
    By Rowan in forum BRWiki Discussions
    Replies: 95
    Last Post: 03-21-2008, 01:24 PM
  2. Wizards.gif
    By Arjan in forum Image
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-01-2006, 07:39 PM
  3. Family wizards
    By Don E in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 07-20-2004, 11:58 AM
  4. Untappable Sources Redux
    By JD Lail in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-10-1998, 09:31 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.