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  1. #1
    Sidhain
    Guest

    Level of Magic in Campaigns?

    Heck, she's an
    >*enchanter* -- it's her *specialty


    Hang on a second an Enchanter in AD&D is a specialist in Enchantment Charm
    MAGIC not a specialist in making Magic items...though many of the spells
    fall under the Enchantment demesne its not quite the same thing, in fact
    only a very few spells relate to enchanting an object, (Enchanted Weapon,
    Enchanted Item) and according to most of the Magic Item Creation rules (in
    Past Dragons and other places, as well as official sources for various
    worlds) one needs many spells not available to a specialist in order to
    create certain magical items.
    AD&D's magic system is indeed wonky...alright Sometimes the spells used to
    make magical items are exactly the spells use to do the effect oneself just
    placed in an object through use of Enchant Object or such, but the effect
    are -similar- not always the same....

    90% of an Enchanter's spells deal with enthralling or affecting the mind of
    the target....which is a different kind of enchantment all together...



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  2. #2
    David Sean Brown
    Guest

    Level of Magic in Campaigns?

    > no. My problem with making them very hard to produce is that it seems
    > glaringly inconsistent with the power level of realm spells: if a THIRD-LEVEL
    > regent wizard with a source (5) can cast Mass Destruction or Transport,
    > why should it be hard for a sixteenth-level wizard to make one measly ring
    > of protection? One could argue that anyone that powerful has better
    > things to do with his time, but that should imply that those items that do
    > exist are fantastically powerful: e.g., ok, maybe there are only five

    I would think that those few high level mages are (for the most part)
    regents. IF they were to take the time to make magic items (which can
    take an EXTRORDINARY amount of time), they'd have to leave their holdingsi
    n the hands of their lieutenants...I'm sure Rogr Aglondier would be very
    happy to learn the Aelies has take a "leaev of absence" for the next 6
    months to make a set of bracers, leaving his lieutenant in charge...great
    opportunity to snatch up some of those sources he always wanted. Other
    not so nice people might now see the lands that benefitted from Aelies'
    nominal protection as significntly less defended, and make their move,
    etc...there is ust too much at stake for the regent wizard to take the
    time to make magic items. As for those non-regent scions, I've always
    assumed they just don't make it (for the most part) to hight enough
    levels to creat permanent magic items...



    Sean

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  3. #3
    ryan.caveney@alum.mit.ed
    Guest

    Level of Magic in Campaigns?

    On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, David Sean Brown wrote:

    > I would think that those few high level mages are (for the most part)
    > regents. If they were to take the time to make magic items, they'd
    > have to leave their holdings in the hands of their lieutenants...

    Granted, those four and the other regent ones are quite busy, but
    there should be a fair number of others. Consider Azusena Karitina (BoM
    57) -- a 19th level enchanter on the Ruling Council of the Royal College
    of Sorcery, who is "rumored to be well over 120 years old." She shares a
    source (0) with nine other wizards all of at least 9th level. She can make
    as many magic items as she wants, and probably does. Heck, she's an
    *enchanter* -- it's her *specialty*.

    > As for those non-regent scions, I've always assumed they just don't make it
    > (for the most part) to high enough levels to create permanent magic items...

    I don't see this at all. As you point out, regents have many
    demands on their time, and are to a certain extent all "marked men" --
    there are people out there gunning for every powerful blooded person who
    has even a sliver of fame. A blooded wizard who scrupulously avoided the
    limelight by eschewing regency would have a lot more time for adventuring
    and research, and would probably therefore reach high levels faster,
    depending on your view of how many XP are gained from domain actions.
    What nonregents have less of is cash and access to good facilities and
    folks who can hunt rare components for them. Still, they should have the
    time and materials to make at least a few interesting things. And every
    mage should make it a high priority to gather as many scrolls as possible.

    - --Ryan
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  4. #4
    Herald Williams
    Guest

    Level of Magic in Campaigns?

    I don't have too much of a problem with the NPCs outlined in the PS
    books having a few magical items, as long as they aren't too powerful.
    There aren't a lot of NPCs outlined, typically about 5-10 per domain.
    Around half are allies / friends / neutrals so that it is very unlikely
    that those items would end up in the party's hands. They might obtain
    items from the opponents outlined in these books, but not all in one
    fell swoop.

    The modules are a different matter. From reading the Birthright
    setting, I went into the adventures expecting at most 2-3 items per
    character (given the recommended party size) with most of those being
    potions, scrolls, and other one-shots. I was a bit disappointed to find
    them filled with goodies.

    Herald

    David Sean Brown wrote:
    >
    > > Ah, but those are almost all regents with family lines that go back to
    > > Deismaar. They have heaps of gold and temporal power to get their hands
    > Actually, if you check out any of the modules, you'll find even non
    > regents (and non scions for that matter) have magic items in the +1 to +2
    > range..and there are a fair number of these NPCs kicking aound in
    > published material
    >
    > Sean
    >
    > ************************************************** *************************
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  5. #5
    David Sean Brown
    Guest

    Level of Magic in Campaigns?

    > Granted, those four and the other regent ones are quite busy, but
    > there should be a fair number of others. Consider Azusena Karitina (BoM
    > 57) -- a 19th level enchanter on the Ruling Council of the Royal College
    > of Sorcery, who is "rumored to be well over 120 years old." She shares a
    > source (0) with nine other wizards all of at least 9th level. She can make
    > as many magic items as she wants, and probably does. Heck, she's an
    > *enchanter* -- it's her *specialty*.

    True enough, but where does she get the money? I'm sure the Imperial
    Chamberlain can't spring for everyone who wants to make magic items.
    Besides, she has her obligations to the COllege, so she can't go on
    extended adventures to raise money or find components. As well, I think
    she'd have a hard time taking the months necessary to prepare and enchant
    the items. THis being said, there ae ALWAYS exceptions, so I don't
    presume that any of this is true for all people..however, I think it does
    give a decent reason why there aren't millions of magic items kicking
    about.

    > > As for those non-regent scions, I've always assumed they just don't make it
    > > (for the most part) to high enough levels to create permanent magic items...
    >
    > I don't see this at all. As you point out, regents have many
    > demands on their time, and are to a certain extent all "marked men" --
    > there are people out there gunning for every powerful blooded person who
    > has even a sliver of fame. A blooded wizard who scrupulously avoided the
    > limelight by eschewing regency would have a lot more time for adventuring
    > and research, and would probably therefore reach high levels faster,
    > depending on your view of how many XP are gained from domain actions.
    > What nonregents have less of is cash and access to good facilities and
    > folks who can hunt rare components for them. Still, they should have the
    > time and materials to make at least a few interesting things. And every
    > mage should make it a high priority to gather as many scrolls as possible.

    Ture, but I would think that any wizard who has adventured enough to
    become high enough level to cast Permanency (needed for permanent magic
    items), and is blooded (has to be to be mage- other debates aside), should
    have some measure of fame before this point. And as you point out, he/she
    still has to make the facilities to do the research. If I'm the domain
    ruler, I want to know EXACTLY who this mage is and what they are doing. I
    might even require a little something in order to let them continue with
    their research. And when you get right down to it, how many ofthese sorts
    of people might be around at any given point in time...not too many I'd
    guess..and even if they each made 1-3 items of use (rings, weapons, etc.)
    it still doesn't amount to a whole lot of magic in the end.

    For those who might argue that Pre-Deismaar there was plenty of time for
    magic item creation, IMC most of the items of any import were AT Deismaar
    and currently reside under a pile of rubble on the bottom of the
    sea...aqualung anyone?

    Sean

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  6. #6
    JNeighb934@aol.co
    Guest

    Level of Magic in Campaigns?

    Even though the Book of Priestcraft states that magic items in Cerilia are
    extremely rare, most published NPCs have two or three magical items, usually
    one of those being of at least moderate power. So this is a seeming
    contradiction. IMC, only the more powerful magical items are the truly rare
    ones, while less powerful items, such as rings of protection +1, etc. are
    much more common.To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
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  7. #7
    Pieter Sleijpen
    Guest

    Level of Magic in Campaigns?

    JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:
    >
    > Even though the Book of Priestcraft states that magic items in Cerilia are
    > extremely rare, most published NPCs have two or three magical items, usually
    > one of those being of at least moderate power. So this is a seeming
    > contradiction. IMC, only the more powerful magical items are the truly rare
    > ones, while less powerful items, such as rings of protection +1, etc. are
    > much more common.

    Ah, but those are almost all regents with family lines that go back to
    Deismaar. They have heaps of gold and temporal power to get their hands
    on those items. As has been told before, regents don't have the time to
    make magical items themselves (refering to wizard regents of coarse).
    Opponents will find out and will react. Even if they don't find out, a
    lot can happen in a few months. So most magical items will most likely
    be made on provision by a regent from a non-regent wizard, who might
    make these items as part of deal (no taxes, to be left alone and so on).
    Of coarse, it stands to reason that these will be the relatively minor
    items you are talking about. But these are even rare in my campaign and
    my players don't mind. The only things relatively common are scrolls and
    potions. Once you know the recipe they can be quickly made and they are
    very usefull for your lieutenants since they are more powerful then a
    weapon +1 and because of their one use rather specific and less
    vunerable for threachery.

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  8. #8
    Pieter Sleijpen
    Guest

    Level of Magic in Campaigns?

    Soviet wrote:
    >
    > Perhaps a simple solution for this is to give Cerilian Wizards extra spell points
    > under the PO: Spells & Magic, with the extra points they could learn more spells or
    > modify them to be stronger....

    As if wizards need to be stronger. I have seen wizards scare the hell
    out of some thugs with a burial mask, a cantrip and the command spell
    (ok, a priest helped). Clever threats and bluffs can reach a lot against
    normal humans or even adventurers, but that will have to do more with
    DM's and players, then the rules. Then again, maybe I am lucky. My
    players are the kind that let their character run away from skeletons
    when they met their first undead.

    If you want to give blooded wizards a touch, you would do better to
    change the magicians. Make them less powerfull in magic and stronger in
    other area's or so.

    Pieter SleijpenTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
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  9. #9

    Level of Magic in Campaigns?

    Sidhain wrote:
    >
    > Heck, she's an
    > >*enchanter* -- it's her *specialty
    >
    > Hang on a second an Enchanter in AD&D is a specialist in Enchantment Charm
    > MAGIC not a specialist in making Magic items...though many of the spells
    > fall under the Enchantment demesne its not quite the same thing, in fact
    > only a very few spells relate to enchanting an object, (Enchanted Weapon,
    > Enchanted Item) and according to most of the Magic Item Creation rules (in
    > Past Dragons and other places, as well as official sources for various
    > worlds) one needs many spells not available to a specialist in order to
    > create certain magical items.

    Even given the rules for the universal Mage spells which do allow anyone
    access to Permanency and Enchant an Item, the class which was designed
    to specialize in magic item construction is the Artificer
    (PO:S&M)...good class. However, I still use the Enchanter for most of my
    item creation specialists (Golem Maker, that sort of thing). I see it as
    two sides of the same coin, much like you can have a genetic specialist
    Life oriented Necromancer. (Great villain, makes for hordes of new
    creatures).
    Thx,
    AlaricTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
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  10. #10
    David Sean Brown
    Guest

    Level of Magic in Campaigns?

    > Ah, but those are almost all regents with family lines that go back to
    > Deismaar. They have heaps of gold and temporal power to get their hands
    Actually, if you check out any of the modules, you'll find even non
    regents (and non scions for that matter) have magic items in the +1 to +2
    range..and there are a fair number of these NPCs kicking aound in
    published material

    Sean

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