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  1. #21
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Originally posted by A_dark@Jan 20 2005, 07:49 PM
    Who invested Jaison Raenech and how? Depending on Osoerde's story, you might need to make some changes. If for example, the Cuiraecen church in Osoerde was the official state religion, then they should have invested him, but then you cannot really have their regent be opposed to him.

    Just 2cents
    The writeup for the One True Church of Vosgaard said that they are allies of Raenech, but that doesn't mean that they invested him. As Osoerde's writeup isn't complete I suggest whoever works on that decides.

    The Church of Storm's Height could have invested him with the realm, as could the IHH. It would depend as to the exact circumstances of his rise to power. He could have arranged things so that it appeared that the Moergan family was dead, and as the Duke Moergan's faithful advisor he was next in line for the title, so he was invested with the realm on the old duke's deathbed.
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  2. #22
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Angelbialaska@Jan 20 2005, 05:26 AM
    Life and Protection of Avanalae is listed as giving tribute to Ghoere. Would this not be to Cariele, where LPA is lieutenant and also gives regency?
    The tribute to Ghoere is demanded of them by Baron Tael in return for the right to possess holdings within the border's of Ghoere. When I post Ghoere's information, you will see that all temples inside Ghoere are asked to pay tribute.

    The LPA supports 5 units of troops within Coeranys and Elinie as part of their arrangement with those nations, but they still have some gold left over if you think they should hand over more in tribute (they make about 7.5 GB in profit each turn).
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  3. #23
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    The sheer size of the document makes me hesitant in presenting precise corrections. Most notably the instances of the revision to bloodline rules, but here are some glaring errors or omissions:


    Church of Storm's Height says the regent is Wincae Raenech, while later in the description of the NPC the name is Wincae Raehech.
    Not to mention his alignment and bloodline level are referred differently (once LE and major 36 while the other CG and major 18).


    The Council of Leaders make no mention of Prince Denerik of Mhowe that does have a writeup in RoE as the leader of Mhowe and having cowed most of the council due to the threat of poison. Further in Player Secrets of Baruk-Azhik there is mention of a Dwarf among the council IIRC.


    The Fingers of Tollan, which I assume is a "new" regent to represent the Gorgon's guild holdings description cuts off abruptly before continuing into the important figures section.


    Southern Anuire Shipping and Imports: In player secrets of Roesone, Orthien Tane is listed as level 9 and with a bloodline of 16. I don' tknow what is the policy you guys are using in regards to player secrets vs RoE, but one can imagine that the former supercedes the latter due to "most recent printing". In Other assets I would suggest giving Orthien Tane a special espionage action ability where he can perform banditry on target guild trade routes in provinces he holds holdings in.


    Spider River Traders: Again the Player's secrets of Roesone give different history and game statistics for Siele Ghoried (including gender).


    The Books of Priestcraft and Magecraft do include descriptions of several temples and wizards already and don't seem to have been fully used for the description of some of the organizations. I think it would be a good idea to use those books as ressources to help flesh out and ease the transition.

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    After reading Serpent Kingdoms for the Forgotten Realms, I'm also compelled in suggesting one make el-hadid a yuan-ti pure blood that serves the Serpent

  5. #25
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Church of Storm's Height says the regent is Wincae Raenech, while later in the description of the NPC the name is Wincae Raehech.
    Not to mention his alignment and bloodline level are referred differently (once LE and major 36 while the other CG and major 18).
    Now this is actually an interesting one. There was some discussion a while back among various members of the Atlas team as to the relationship before the head of the Church of Storm's height and Duke Raenech, and we were sort of split with some supporting the idea that he was a relation, while others suggesting that the names were just similar.

    I was of the opinion that the sames were too similar to be a conincidence, so when I did up all the holding info and income, etc, I put him down as Wincae Raenech. However, the original description, which I never had time to edit, had him down as Raehech, hence the discrepency there.

    I'd be interested to hear other opinions on this, by the way.

    The Council of Leaders make no mention of Prince Denerik of Mhowe that does have a writeup in RoE as the leader of Mhowe and having cowed most of the council due to the threat of poison. Further in Player Secrets of Baruk-Azhik there is mention of a Dwarf among the council IIRC.
    That description wasn't completed. I was half-way through writing that up when I posted it here. There are other leaders to add, and I needed to check the information again with all the various sources.

    The Fingers of Tollan, which I assume is a "new" regent to represent the Gorgon's guild holdings description cuts off abruptly before continuing into the important figures section.
    Again this is unfinished. I tend to jump around a lot while writing
    Tollan, by the way, is mentioned in Blood Enemies as a new awnshegh serving the Gorgon as spymaster and treasury. I decided to put him in control of the Gorgon's guilds. Means more RP for the Gorgon, plus a network of spies to keep an eye on things in his lands.
    Note: Changes to his assets might be needed to include a spynetwork in Kal-Saitharak and Fellport at the very least, and maybe in Mur-Kilad and Markazor as well (keep an eye on Gorgon's vassals).

    Southern Anuire Shipping and Imports: In player secrets of Roesone, Orthien Tane is listed as level 9 and with a bloodline of 16. I don' tknow what is the policy you guys are using in regards to player secrets vs RoE, but one can imagine that the former supercedes the latter due to "most recent printing". In Other assets I would suggest giving Orthien Tane a special espionage action ability where he can perform banditry on target guild trade routes in provinces he holds holdings in.
    Hmm, I don't know. A lot of people never liked the Player's Secrets books for various reasons. In the case of Roesone and the Boxed Set, both were actually printed at around the same time I believe, Roesone was the first PS book and came out almost immediately after the boxed set was released. It is possible that it was based on an earlier draft of the setting and the regent values and even genders (in the case of Siele Ghoried) changed.

    What does everyone else think on this? Making Tane level 9, does put him much higher than the other guild regents in the region.

    How would you write up this special banditry action? What are the exact rule governing its use?

    The Books of Priestcraft and Magecraft do include descriptions of several temples and wizards already and don't seem to have been fully used for the description of some of the organizations. I think it would be a good idea to use those books as ressources to help flesh out and ease the transition.
    Any of the temples of wizard that currently have complete descriptions fall into this category? If so, which ones. I didn't think to check against the descriptions in the BoP or BoM, although I should point out all that material in the document is only a draft, and can be altered if a significant variation from the original is highlighted.
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  6. #26
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Originally posted by The incredible, edible Phil@Jan 21 2005, 05:29 AM
    After reading Serpent Kingdoms for the Forgotten Realms, I'm also compelled in suggesting one make el-hadid a yuan-ti pure blood that serves the Serpent
    I wouldn't... suggest it that is. Forgotten Realms and Birthright just never seem to mix well.
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  7. #27
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Jan 24 2005, 07:25 AM
    Church of Storm's Height says the regent is Wincae Raenech, while later in the description of the NPC the name is Wincae Raehech.
    Not to mention his alignment and bloodline level are referred differently (once LE and major 36 while the other CG and major 18).
    Now this is actually an interesting one. There was some discussion a while back among various members of the Atlas team as to the relationship before the head of the Church of Storm's height and Duke Raenech, and we were sort of split with some supporting the idea that he was a relation, while others suggesting that the names were just similar.

    I was of the opinion that the sames were too similar to be a conincidence, so when I did up all the holding info and income, etc, I put him down as Wincae Raenech. However, the original description, which I never had time to edit, had him down as Raehech, hence the discrepency there.

    I'd be interested to hear other opinions on this, by the way.

    I was the one that pointed it out to Ariadne when I glanced over her first write up of the Church of Storm's Height that the name in the BoP is not the same. It is repeated in the BoP in every line entry as being Raehech. I am of the opinion that the names are just similar. Part of the logic is that some church in Osoerde must be supporting the rightful ruler, at least sublty. If it is not this church then what one will it be?

    Making the regent of the church LE is likewise not really a good call (IMO), it is the big "C" afterall- right? So why the lawful part?

    In the game I ran I had a PC being a paladin of the CSH and seeking refuge in Roesone due to his outspoken dissent against Jasen. The head of the church asked for a PC (the new regent of Roesone) to keep this in mind and keep the paladin safe from his enemies, without letting him know what was going on.

    A little bit much on the subterfuge for a cleric of Cuircean, but the concept fit the situation, IMO. Going the way it is currently done would prevent this from happening.

    Cuircean is against oppressing the masses and sticking up for those who can't stick up for themselves so it makes it highly unlikely, IMO, for a church to openly support a ruler who exists on that policy without working towards removing him in some manner.

    There was so little written up on the CSH in the BoP that we have a lot of leeway here for interpretation.
    Duane Eggert

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    As far as I remember, then to be priest of big C you need to be non-lawful.

  9. #29
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Yes it was non-lawful. I hadn't noticed the LE before, which given the size of the total Atlas document (241 pages at the moment) isn't surprising.

    With the Raenech/Raehech matter. If it was an error in RoE, then it could have been carried over into the BoP. The main thing that is that 'h' and 'n' are very similar looking letters. I'm not fussed either way though, which is why I asked for opinions.

    I did note just now that in the BoP it mentions that some of the temple's follower support William Moergan (about half) so that would cast doubt on their leader being a relation to the duke.
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  10. #30
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Jan 24 2005, 08:21 AM
    Yes it was non-lawful. I hadn't noticed the LE before, which given the size of the total Atlas document (241 pages at the moment) isn't surprising.

    With the Raenech/Raehech matter. If it was an error in RoE, then it could have been carried over into the BoP. The main thing that is that 'h' and 'n' are very similar looking letters. I'm not fussed either way though, which is why I asked for opinions.

    I did note just now that in the BoP it mentions that some of the temple's follower support William Moergan (about half) so that would cast doubt on their leader being a relation to the duke.
    Making them different people also helps to explain why a CG (or at least CN) church could exist in the land.

    It also helps suppport Ariadne's writing on the prefect himself:

    Storm’s Prefect Wincae Raehech (MAn; Clr5, Cuiraécen; Scion of Brenna, major, 18, CG). Wincae Raehech is a true rebel. Outwardly he supports the ruler of the realm Jaison Raenech, but his true intention is to overthrow his reign and to bring Osoerde’s rightful ruler back to power. The rumours that the church of Belinik has taken root within Osoerde only strengthens his resolve to suffocate the evil in this realm.

    This seems to fit the backstory of the land a whole lot better as well as keeping truer to the general concensus of Cuircean's dogma.


    IMO a church will have the same alignment as its prefect. This is a reflection of the majority of the worshippers agreeing with his/her philosophy and the church's actions (dictated by the prefect which is dictated by his/her alignment). So the CSH should not be a LE church.
    Duane Eggert

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