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  1. #31
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    In the original Atlas (the one from the campaign setting), it's mentioned that all the gods came from the same pantheon and they were patrons of a tribe. So Basaia were part of the pantheon even before the Basarji was encountered. And since all gods appear to be known and part of the same pantheon, then I doubt that there are any other gods out there, that wouldn't make much sense to me.

    There were six gods, each with their own tribe and then there was the last god who had no tribe, but who seduced others to his side.

  2. #32
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    And since all gods appear to be known and part of the same pantheon, then I doubt that there are any other gods out there, that wouldn't make much sense to me.
    I cant say I agree with your thinking , what about the dwarven pantheon, It might be more accurate to say that the old gods who fought at daesmar were the entirety of one pantheon and that other pantheons exist. I dont view azrai as a god of evil necessary, i view the disagreement as in pantheon and the other gods , pantheons would not feel threatened by the disagreement. The reason i have for azrai's actions is that the other tribes destroyed his tribe and the other gods wont get involved in his revenge.
    MORNINGSTAR

  3. #33
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    In the original Atlas (the one from the campaign setting), it's mentioned that all the gods came from the same pantheon and they were patrons of a tribe. So Basaia were part of the pantheon even before the Basarji was encountered. And since all gods appear to be known and part of the same pantheon, then I doubt that there are any other gods out there, that wouldn't make much sense to me.

    There were six gods, each with their own tribe and then there was the last god who had no tribe, but who seduced others to his side.
    I read through the old Atlas again just to see - and it says the old Adurian pantheon was shared by the six tribes, including the Basarji. That could suggest these are the only gods of Aebrynis, but there are no direct claims that the Cerilian gods are the only gods of Aebrynis. The Atlas is very specifically written from the viewpoint of Calidhe Dossiere, and so all of its info must be considered from that perspective. Dossiere might not know of the existence of other pantheons in far-away Djapar or Thaele - it doesn't mean they don't exist.

    The Basarji do prove an interesting case, though. How DID they come to worship the same pantheon as the five Adurian tribes? One theory I'm toying with is that the Basarji originated in Aduria long, long ago, and migrated east across the ocean to Djapar, a continent where they found other humans already settled, with their own gods and cultures. Perhaps this brought them into conflict with the Basarji as the immigrants fought for their own land and identity in Djapar. This ancient conflict may have become a recurring theme, and perhaps became a later impetus for some of the Basarji to migrate again, this time to south-eastern Cerilia. Perhaps the Basarji were very prosperous within the region they had claimed: their population was burgeoning, but powerful enemies on their borders (like a strong empire) may have made migration a more attractive option than war. Also, it seems reasonable to surmise that Basaia may have had a hand in guiding her priests with visions and omens. Perhaps she was aware of the other tribes' flight from the Shadow, and in her insight knew that the strength of the Basarji would be needed if the Shadow were ever to be defeated.

    Just a theory.

    Osprey

  4. #34
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 06:49 PM 1/14/2005 +0100, Osprey wrote:



    >The Basarji do prove an interesting case, though. How DID they come to

    >worship the same pantheon as the five Adurian tribes?



    Before Deismaar the gods were, apparently, much more active in mortal

    affairs than they are at the time the setting material is published. Or, I

    guess one could define it differently by noting that the "old gods" were

    more involved in the events of Aebrynis than the new ones are, since the

    newbies have their own non-interference pact--a sort of divine Prime

    Directive, if you will. The Basarji (and the rest of the gods) might

    simply have come to revere the pantheon because they were actually present

    in avatar form from time to time in their homeland.



    Gary

  5. #35
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    I've finished my work on the 3 creator gods.

    It longish, so I'll put it in another post.

    B
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  6. #36
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    I have to go with the idea that there is other gods than those that we see in Cerilia. We see that the Dwarves have a different group.

    Maybe the other Gods were not as powerful as those at Deismaar.

    I think Deismaar had a global effect on the gods, like making them understand that they can be killed.

    Also, maybe the gods joined with the few at Deismaar to fight the battle. Remember that the history we have is from only one cultures point of view. Other cultures will have seen the time differently.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    Also, maybe the gods joined with the few at Deismaar to fight the battle.
    Hmmm...I think if there were other deities at Deismaar, it would be fairly well-known, assuming they manifested along with the others.

    Maybe the other Gods were not as powerful as those at Deismaar.

    Remember that the history we have is from only one cultures point of view. Other cultures will have seen the time differently.
    And that viewpoint (from the Atlas, etc.) is an Anuirean one. Being the original game material, I'm starting to realize that many players/DM's are rather biased toward the Anuirean viewpoint as well. I think because most people have been introduced to BR with Cerilia as the center of the civilized world, it's hard to accept a different viewpoint wherein the Cerilian deities are just a few among many. There seems to be a common opinion that the Cerilian deities are either the only ones in Aebrynis, or should be the most powerful and prominent deities in the world.

    Personally, I don't agree with that thinking, though I do imagine the Deismaar cataclysm possibly having some world-spanning consequences (like corruption of the Shadow World). I treat the original Atlas and other sources like I would any historical source: as limited by their authors' sources, world-view, and biases.
    For instance, the Atlas named Anduiras as the head of the old Adurian/Cerilian pantheon. I don't buy it. I think each tribe would have viewed its patron god as the premier deity, and the others as secondary. I believe these were proud, independent tribes, not willing followers of the Andu. However, it may be that the other tribes accepted Anduiras as the proper god of war, and so would accept the leadership of the Andu in the War Against the Shadow. The Andu, being a warrior tribe, would assume that the god of war is ALWAYS the lead god - one more piece of cultural bias I'm not certain was shared by the other, less-warlike tribes. I think these sorts of differences are just a few of the reasons for continuing conflict and disagreement between the Anuireans and the other Cerilian humans.

    Osprey

  8. #38
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    For instance, the Atlas named Anduiras as the head of the old Adurian/Cerilian pantheon. I don't buy it. I think each tribe would have viewed its patron god as the premier deity, and the others as secondary.
    which is what each of the human groups do erik is primary in the rjurik highlands and they appear to have little of the pantheon that is in anuire with erik having much more control. The atlas was an anuire centered book and the pantheon is viewed as organised having gods in certain positions. I tend to look at it as the anuirien pantheon developed during the empire and before that haelyn was the primary god (more primary or sincular with the other gods having very little if any role).

    I view the gods as more individuals who have a series of alliances with other gods creating power blocks.

    When a pantheon is mentioned it is the anuirien pantheon and there for does not apply to the other races.
    MORNINGSTAR

  9. #39
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    I partially agree with this. Clearly each culture has its own twist on the worship of each god. Just look at Khinasi - they don't mention Haelyn as the Boss god, to them Avani is the head of the pantheon. Same goes for Erik and the Rjurik.

    However, I still think we can call it one pantheon, since its the same gods throughout even if they are worshipped a bit differently.

    B
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  10. #40
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    I partially agree with this. Clearly each culture has its own twist on the worship of each god. Just look at Khinasi - they don't mention Haelyn as the Boss god, to them Avani is the head of the pantheon. Same goes for Erik and the Rjurik.
    I dont view the other cultures as having a pantheon they are aware of the other gods and in some places may worship them but that does not make them follow a pantheon.
    MORNINGSTAR

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