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  1. #1
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Another old topic that has become relevant again, in relation to my Aerbynis map/atlas. This thime I'm not as interesting in debating the issue, but rather more interested in input and comments.

    B
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    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  2. #2
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Hi,

    THE 7 GODS OF OLD
    I'll start by assuming that the humans of Aduria and Djapar (Basarji part at least) worhsiped/knew of 7 major gods.

    Anduiras (LG) - God of War and Rulership
    Basaïa (LN) - Goddess of the Sun and Knowledge
    Brenna (CN) - Godess of Fortune and Luck
    Masela (NG) - Goddess of the Seas
    Reynir (N) - God of the Wild
    Vorynn (CG) - God of Magic and the Moon

    Azrai (NE) - God of Shadows and Evil (may well have had other titles and portfolios earlier on, but by the time we're looking at, he's "just" the evil one).

    We do know that each culture held each held on god in particular esteem, but all the gods were part of the same pantheon and thus known to all cultures. I also think its safe to assume that the gods had different names and their worship has particular characteristics, depending on what culture worhshipped them. We see this in modern Cerilia as well.

    B
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  3. #3
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    the gods, there is the 7 old human ones, the dwarven pantheon ( i think they had 9 but would have to check the books),

    I have lots of other gods being created at daesmar, the goblin gods , gnolls , giant etc, like the elves I have them being godless before daesmar and azrai, this is where a lot of azrai's power went as his two human successor gods arn't very powerful.

    I also have there being other gods, those who didn't take part in daesmar for one reason or another like the dwarf gods, and those created sinse, some of the anshe can grant spells and they could be considered gods as well as being worshipped as one. Some gods may have been created at daesmar that never got a following in cerilia and can be found elsewhere.
    MORNINGSTAR

  4. #4
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    I also don't see azrai as the personification of evil that others do (i dont like the evil god thing), I use a slight variation for him as well not that people would know this in game usualy but here you go. Azrai had an ancient greavance against the other gods and their people, the one I use being the destruction or near destruction of his people (human racial group). A lot of his powers and the powers effects of his followers and those with his bloodline come from a connection to the seeming, people believe his blood is cursed so it is cursed sort of thing. that is also why they cannot control their transformation (awnshe)when they use their powers it conects them to the seeming and changes them to the seeming's view of them.

    just my pet way of using azrai.
    MORNINGSTAR

  5. #5
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    When the 7 gods died at Deismaar, at least 8 new gods ascended in their place.

    One each for the gods of light, and two for the Shadow. Later the pantheon increased to 11, as Cuiraécen, Eloéle, and Laerme came into being. Were they also created at Deismaar and only came into power later, or did they come into being later on? If so, are they truly the children of the gods, or were they mortals who ascended to godhood (or perhaps both, if events in heaven and on Earth reflects one another)?

    B
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    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  6. #6
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    If you follow the information from the Book of Priestcraft then they are indeed the children of the gods. According to that book, Laerme was born in the 2nd century after Deismaar, Cuiraecen in the 3rd, and Eloele somewhere around the same time. As the new gods were originally mortals it only makes sense that they would want children, while for the old gods, humanity were their children.

    There is no reason why new gods cannot be introduced on other continents, I just wouldn't introduces that many. For my Adurian expansion I introduced 4 new gods who took no part at Deismaar. In any new continent there would be the possibility of other new gods, specifically gods worshipped by non-human races.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  7. #7
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    The continued existence of the Old Gods is another favourite theme for me.

    What if the gods didn't really die at Deismaar - they were instead severely weakened, their essences scattered and their potfolios claimed by the newly ascended gods.

    We already more or less know that the Cold Rider is indeed an incarnation of Azrai (at least according to Rich's Lost Files), which makes me believe that the other gods may still be around in one form or another.

    The way I've used the old gods IMC, is that they slowly reformed over the course of several centuires. That which is divine can't truly died, so they slowly reformed over time, thanks in part to the countinued worship in the "Old Lands" (we know that the Basarji of Djapar worhsip Basaïa to this day, and even deny Avani's existence, maybe they are right...). This I propose is what happened with the other gods as well.

    Indeed, I never saw the new gods as being very active outside Cerilia (perhaps with the exception og missionaries following Anuirean colonization attempts in Aduria). I cannot accept that the rest of Aebrynis continued worshiping dead gods, so there must be more to the story here.

    Since their champions had already taken away part of their portfolios, the re-animated gods eventually ended up with potfolios now identical to their old ones. I have also played them as very embittered at the young gods for "stealing" their place and power.

    Example:
    Anuiras (LE); Intemediate God; the Warlord, the Undying Lord; warfare, tradition, and obedience.
    Basaïa (NE), Intermediate Goddess; the Bleak Sun, the Unforgiving; Vengeance, hate, deserts,
    Masela (CE); Lesser Goddess; The Bitch Queen, the Drowned Goddess, Mistress of the Deep; the deeps, sea monsters, bad weather, drowning

    etc.

    B
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  8. #8
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Jan 11 2005, 12:42 PM
    If you follow the information from the Book of Priestcraft then they are indeed the children of the gods. According to that book, Laerme was born in the 2nd century after Deismaar, Cuiraecen in the 3rd, and Eloele somewhere around the same time. As the new gods were originally mortals it only makes sense that they would want children, while for the old gods, humanity were their children.
    I do follow the BoP in this, but I like to explore the connection between the Earth and Heaven. Since the 8 other gods were mortals once (and as you say would want children etc.), could not the events mirror one another.

    Perhaps Cuiraécen was really a great champion of Haelyn, a fierce and indomitable chap who braved any weather to cross the sea of Cerilia to spread the light of the Allfather...eventually ascending and becomming a god, the son of Haelyn and Nesirie.

    B
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  9. #9
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    I cannot see the champion of one deity, however gracious to another, rising to godhood doubly patroned; rather, a non-aligned person who follows the tenets of two faiths might be so, though still...

    In any case, I prefer the BoP way of handling things (it gives a more mythical feel to the setting).

    Finally, the reason 2 deities arose from Azrai's power is pretty obvious: if you are the sole evil deity and were a match for 6 other deities, of course you are very powerful and thus have a stronger "essence". Don't forget that the Gorgon got a huge bloodline at the same time!

  10. #10
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RaspK_FOG@Jan 11 2005, 01:38 PM
    Finally, the reason 2 deities arose from Azrai's power is pretty obvious: if you are the sole evil deity and were a match for 6 other deities, of course you are very powerful and thus have a stronger "essence". Don't forget that the Gorgon got a huge bloodline at the same time!
    Yeah, and given the number of very powerful awnsheghlien, the cold rider etc that got created, it's no wonder why those 2 gods are actually pretty weak when compared to their 9 opponents...
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

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