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Thread: Bloodlines outside Cerilia
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01-11-2005, 10:16 AM #11Originally posted by Green Knight@Jan 11 2005, 07:15 PM
OA DJAPAR
For OA Djapar I've decided to go with a version of the War against Shadow that saw the gods bestow bloodlines to their greatest champions. After the war the bloodlines remained. I haven't yet decided wheter or not the OA DJAPARI worshipped the same 7 gods as the folk from Aduria, so that decision will determine whether we have just the same 7 derivations or some new ones.
As far as the number of gods worshipped, I suggest that the full set of Cerilia gods is also worshipped elsewhere. Gods have a way of making their presence known and I imagine that shortly after Deismaar the new gods would have introduced themselves to the worshippers of the old and things have pretty much proceeded from there.
In one of the chats that was held with the BR developers (as part of the 5th aniversery of BR) the idea of gods on other continents, and bloodlines in Aduria was discussed. Here is the relevant section.
Question: There has been discussion of Bloodlines outside of Cerilia on the newsgroup. Are there any bloodlines in the nations outside cerilia that are not derivative of the Cerilian bloodlines (as in Bloodline of Roele, etc)? And if so, are they similar in strenght and cultural significance to those in Cerilia?
Ed Stark: Well, we'd discussed something like that for Aduria, but I really believe we'd decided that all bloodlines would derive from the cerilian gods... who were also the Adurian gods. I could be wrong here, Rich? Carrie?
E: That doesn't mean there aren't more Aebynnian gods, btw, but if there are, they weren't invovled in Deismaar.
Carrie Bebris: That's how I remember it, Ted.
Rich Baker: Nope, you're right, Ted. I guess Azrai might have had some cohorts or demigods that we just haven't read about yet, but for the most part, the bloodlines will stem from the gods killed at Deismaar.
C: There were only so many gods who blew up, after all.
E: But, remember, an explosion is spherical... bloodlines were created on both sides of the (former) isthmus.
R: Maybe all gods everywhere blew up when Deismaar when down. Maybe the universe had to wipe the cosmos clean and start from scratch.
Question: I don't mean the gods themselves, but rather are the peoples of foreign lands inhabited with bloodlines.
E: Not in my thinking.
C: We'd talked about the Anuireans colonizing other places during the height of the empire...
E: Not bloodlines derived from the gods at deismaar anyway. I mean, somebody could have sailed back to Djarpar after the battle.
E: Or Whatever.
R: (In fact, my dragon pieces explore the north coast of Aduria, where several Anuirean colonies used to exist.)
Question: But it's not on a culturally significant level like in Cerilia?
C: But, we thought most of the colonies would have been in Aduira. I suppose, however, that explorers could have bought bloodlines (a nicer alternative to smallpox) to other lands and races.
E: But, again, these are bloodlines derived from Cerilian gods... not any other gods.
R: We'd talked about the fact that Aduria's bloodlines might be more widespread, more dispersed, than Cerilia's in our initial concepting.
R: That's as far as we got, though.
E: Maybe even a little different in nature, but, Rich is right, we didn't get farther down that road.
C: I'm really looking forward to those Dragon articles, Rich.Let me claim your Birthright!!
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01-11-2005, 11:13 AM #12Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Jan 11 2005, 11:16 AM
Or perhaps the same gods, but with different names.
That said, I have also like the idea of there being a number of demi-gods and such, either specific to a region/culture, or with a much more narrowly defined portfolio.
So, if I end up following this, then there will be only 7 derivtions after all, but the source of the bloodlines need not be Deismaar (although I imagine the greatest part came from the singular event).
B
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01-11-2005, 04:40 PM #13
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Raesene Andu schrieb:
>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at:
> http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...ST&f=21&t=2922
>
> Raesene Andu wrote:
> QUOTE (Green Knight @ Jan 11 2005, 07:15 PM) OA DJAPAR
>For OA Djapar I`ve decided to go with a version of the War against Shadow that saw the gods bestow bloodlines to their greatest champions. After the war the bloodlines remained. I haven`t yet decided wheter or not the OA DJAPARI worshipped the same 7 gods as the folk from Aduria, so that decision will determine whether we have just the same 7 derivations or some new ones.
>-----------------------------
>
>
> Or perhaps the same gods, but with different names.
>
>As far as the number of gods worshipped, I suggest that the full set of Cerilia gods is also worshipped elsewhere. Gods have a way of making their presence known and I imagine that shortly after Deismaar the new gods would have introduced themselves to the worshippers of the old and things have pretty much proceeded from there.
>
That contradicts the Basarji in Djapar denying the death of Basaïa and
denying the ascendance of Avani in her place - if the new gods simply
take over everywhere then that would simply not be possible.
bye
Michael
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01-11-2005, 05:40 PM #14
Michael Romes writes:
>> As far as the number of gods worshipped, I suggest that the full set of
>> Cerilia gods is also worshipped elsewhere. Gods have a way of making
>> their presence known and I imagine that shortly after Deis
>>
> That contradicts the Basarji in Djapar denying the death of Basaïa and
> denying the ascendance of Avani in her place - if the new gods simply
> take over everywhere then that would simply not be possible.
Well, the people of Basarji and Djapar who worship "Basaïa" are really
worshipping Avani since she is the successor of that goddess` portfolio/
What I think is meant here is that the Cerilian gods are worshipped
throughout Aebrynis whether the respective worshippers fully understand the
events of Deismaar or not. They may worship "different gods" in the sense
that they think they are embodied in a deity called Oogabooga, but that god
is, in fact, just another name for one of the gods that Cerilians worship.
In the long run there could easily be histories and facts that people living
elsewhere in Aebrynis know about the gods that Cerilians might find
unbelievable. Maybe Laerme spends a lot of time on the beaches of some
Aebrynian version of a Polynesian island and drinks a lot of rum-colas? Any
of the gods might have formed liasons with mortals creating a king of
bloodline system that rivals or surpasses that of Cerilia.... Who knows?
Gary
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01-11-2005, 06:52 PM #15
In my Oriental BR campaign, I left Deismaar out of it entirely. My OA world used more traditional Asian deities. Nippon, the BR-mythical Japan of my world, kept its Shinto animism (deities are spirits, with a great hierarchy and range of power and authority).
Bloodlines are created by the mating of gods (spirits) and mortals. The raw strength of that bloodline is based on the spiritual power or "rank" of the immortal parent, so that brand new bloodlines can be of any strength (minor to true).
Being a mythological setting, I imagined that this sort of divine-mortal mating happened a lot in the past, and occasionally still does. Once the first generation is created, bloodlines are proliferated or die out just like Cerilian ones do. The major differences are these:
- There would be a massive diversity of bloodline derivations, far more than the "Cerilian 7."
- Derivation in OA-BR is really a scion's most powerful spiritual ancestor - a very Asian concept that I think is much more appropriate for an OA setting.
- While new bloodlines are created every so often, not all are born with great strength, and so lesser bloodlines would fade out from time to time, especially among the common folk. The nobility (buke), being fewer in number, could more easily intermarry and preserve their divine heritage, reinforcing their divine right to rule.
Actually creating this system meant trying to compile an entire pantheon, and the whole range of spirits venerated. There's a spirit for everything in Shinto, which means an endless variety of derivations and blood powers are possible. While this may not be the cookie-cutter package deal of typical D&D, I think it's a system that makes the OA setting it's own thing - quite distinct from Cerilia or Aduria.
I'll post that list in this forum a little later.
Osprey
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01-11-2005, 09:20 PM #16
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Gary Foss schrieb:
> Michael Romes writes:
...
>> That contradicts the Basarji in Djapar denying the death of Basaïa and
>> denying the ascendance of Avani in her place - if the new gods simply
>> take over everywhere then that would simply not be possible.
>
>
> Well, the people of Basarji and Djapar who worship "Basaïa" are really
> worshipping Avani since she is the successor of that goddess` portfolio/
Perhaps. But that is only one possible interpretation for that scenario.
Others would be that Basaïa never really died (as in Björns game) or
that all the people of Djafar currently worship some devilprince of fire
who plays the role of the dead godess ;-)
Osprey wrote:
>I think your ideas concerning the old gods (weakened and bitter, but still hangin` around) are interesting. IMO, though, when the gods died, people would know it. Why? Because all of their clerics would suddenly be "cut off" from their sources of divine power. In the D&D world, this isn`t some subtle question of faith and doubt, it`s a blatant effect. The village priest can`t perform miracles anymore. Nor can the one in the next village, or at the big temple in town, etc. In D&D, people don`t need the kind of human faith that humans do IRL - they have priests performing divine magic as proof of their connection to a deity or divine power of some sort (in BR, this is always a deity`s power). If Earth had such regular performances, faith would be a lot less sticky, and religions would be much more powerful (if you can imagine that).
>
However the strange phenomenon would be why Avani replaced Basaïa in the
khir-aften-el-Arrasi - but not in the homeland of Djapar. The solution
that she pretends to grant spells in Djapar as Basaïa does not very well
fit for a godess of light, reason and perhaps truth.
> What I think is meant here is that the Cerilian gods are worshipped
> throughout Aebrynis whether the respective worshippers fully
> understand the
> events of Deismaar or not. They may worship "different gods" in the
> sense
> that they think they are embodied in a deity called Oogabooga, but
> that god
> is, in fact, just another name for one of the gods that Cerilians
> worship.
That can, but need not be. In the novel Greatheart, in the short story
at the end, where we got the creation of the swords that appear in
Greatheart on the good and evil side, there is a part about the gods
following Azrai to Cerilia when he evades them. As far as I remember
they say something like that they never saw Cerilia as part of their
domain until Azrai started to corrupt the nature there... If Cerilia has
not been part of the original gods, then the new gods need not to be
acknowledged on the whole of Aebrynnis. They can, if one wishes that in
the campaign, but they need not.
bye
Michael
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01-12-2005, 12:19 AM #17
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Another take on spirits creating the bloodlines . How about the new younger gods and other gods not part of cerilia, the 8 gods swore not to take physical form on the world but what about their children, eloele etc. They could have taken physical form and created children with people giving you the bloodlines, eloele, cuiraecen, laerme and maybe others.
MORNINGSTAR
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01-12-2005, 03:41 AM #18
Osprey said:
> - There would be a massive diversity of bloodline derivations, far more than the "Cerilian 7."
> - Derivation in OA-BR is really a scion's most powerful spiritual ancestor
> - a very Asian concept that I think is much more appropriate for an OA setting.
So how did you decide what were the appropriate blood abilities per derivation?
What if a scion had only a weak spirit's bloodline? What abilities were available?
Another alternative is to take the MiddleEarth approach and use a set of supreme beings and their maia or angels. You can get bloodlines from either of these but the derivation is controlled by who is the boss (or creator) of the angel. ie. if Bloggs is a spirit of the nature god, then any bloodline from Bloggs is of the nature god's derivation. The difference from Awnsh. and spirits/angels would have to be that they can't do blood theft.
Sorontar
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01-12-2005, 04:03 AM #19So how did you decide what were the appropriate blood abilities per derivation?
What if a scion had only a weak spirit's bloodline? What abilities were available?
I just posted a seperate thread in this forum where I wrote out the list of kami (gods/spirits) for my OABR campaign in Nippon, and some guidelines on how divine conception determines bloodline strength and derivation (granting a new bloodline a strength from minor to true, and a score of 5-100).
As for determining bloodline abilities, well - that's where a little creativity, and constructive use of the BRCS Ch 2 guidelines on creating new blood abilities comes in real handy. Plus I borrowed liberally from the existing lists of bloodline abilities, incorporating any that seemed appropriate.
Here's a sample bloodline ability I made especially for scions of a Tenjin (patron kami of a skill). Such scions would have a very limited set of choices for bloodline abilities, since their ancestor kami is so narrowly focused. Hence I made this power a "premier" power, slightly stronger than a typical bloodline ability (and the reason it is exclusive to Tenjin scions).
Mastery: A scion may apply a special bonus to the chosen skill of his Tenjin ancestor. For martial skills, this is a bonus to attack and damage with the chosen fighting form, for non-combat skills it is a skill check bonus.
Minor: +3 Skill modifier, or +2 Attack and Damage
Major: +6 Skill modifier, or +4 Attack and Damage
Osprey
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01-13-2005, 07:47 AM #20
Slightly off topic:
I find the existing blood abilities terribly limited in scope, so I've made up a host of new ones. I'd like to hear some more ideas on this, so I'll put in a new tread with "New Blood Abilities".
B
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