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  1. #1
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Hi,

    While some people may think that bloodlines are a relatively unique Cerilian thing (to which I may in fact agree), that won't do if you want to play BR set in other places/cultures than those of Cerilia.

    I think that bloodlines are one of the more important things that sets BR apart from other worlds. So if I were to play an oriental BR campaign, it would have to have bloodlines. Otherwise I might just as well play in another campaign setting.

    Not that there isn't a lot of other good features to BR as well, but w/o bloodline, it's not the same thing. So, based on this line of "reasoning", I've set about brainstorming on the issue, and would definitely like some feedback (I know this topic has been discussed before as well, but not exhaustively).

    B
    Cheers
    Bj°rn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  2. #2
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    So far I've come up with the following (this is the Midnight Cauldron, remember?:

    1. Bloodlines not profilic in Cerilia, and so they should not be profilic elsewhere either. Indeed, some areas may have markedly LESS bloodlines, but major cultures shouldn't be totally devoid of them without good cause.

    2. There were 7 bloodlines created at Deismaar. No more and no less. However, that doesn't mean there cannot be additional derivations elsewhere. There doesn't HAVE to be additional derivations, but there is no real reason there CAN'T be any.

    3. The creation of a bloodline is a very rare thing indeed. Seven gods died at Deismaar, where they had physically manifested their power and being, and thus their essences were scattered. The death of a god might therefor lead to the creation of bloodlines (and divine daths may have taken place before/elsewhere).

    4. Proximity to a dying god (and thus proximity to Deismaar) seems to be an (important) factor when determining who gets blooded or not. However, it doesn't seem to be the only one - how close that person was to their god also seems to be important. So it might well be that heroic followers of the old gods could be imbued with a bloodline, even if they were not very close to Deismaar. So if a champion of Anduira was fighting the Shadow in the Highlands at the time of the battle at Deismaar, he might still get blooded (but would probably have become rather more powerful had he been present near the mountain).

    5. Gods might also voluntarily invest part of their power by creating avatars. An avatar would be a person who very closely exemplified a deity, and whom the god used for special purposes. By and large that person would possess a granted bloodline, and could also act as a vessel for which the god to more fully manifest itself when needed.

    6. The great champions of the gods who fought at Deismaar and during the War against Shadow might well have been so imbued with divine power (the gods were perhaps a bit more directly involved before Deismaar). Haelyn, Nesirie and so on would have such bloodlines, as might well the Lost and other champions of evil.

    7. If the 7 gods created such exalted champions in Cerilia, they could have reated them in other areas of the world as well. In addition, if there are additioanl gods (and I think there is), those gods may also have done the same. So in distant lands there may exist bloodlines that are unrelated to the old gods and/or Deismaar.

    B
    Cheers
    Bj°rn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  3. #3
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 01:26 PM 1/10/2005 +0100, Green Knight wrote:



    >I think that bloodlines are one of the more important things that sets BR

    >apart from other worlds. So if I were to play an oriental BR campaign, it

    >would have to have bloodlines. Otherwise I might just as well play in

    >another campaign setting.

    >

    >Not that there isn`t a lot of other good features to BR as well, but w/o

    >bloodline, it`s not the same thing. So, based on this line of "reasoning",

    >I`ve set about brainstorming on the issue, and would definitely like some

    >feedback (I know this topic has been discussed before as well, but not

    >exhaustively).



    The solution I came up with when I did a OA version of BR on a continent on

    the far side of Aebrynis from Cerilia was that the Battle of Deismaar was

    not a unique event. That is, while the gods of Cerilia were fighting Azrai

    on a soon to be blasted away Cerilian mountain, there was a parallel battle

    going on in another hemisphere of the globe in which the same gods were

    fighting another incarnation of Azrai at the exact same time he was being

    fought at Deismaar. Gods are, after all, gods so having a second avatar

    (or three, five or twenty) needn`t be that much of a leap for them. Also

    one can then see the BoD not as a local Cerilian event but one that is

    global--which IMO makes more sense considering its overall effect on the

    campaign setting. Cerilia is a very small continent to be the sole center

    of the world when it comes to so fundamental an issue.



    Alternatively, one could assume only Azrai had the power to manifest more

    than once and the gods of an oriental BR setting differed from those that

    were at Deismaar. That way one could come up with entirely new types of

    bloodlines, blood abilities, etc. that may be more suited to an oriental

    setting. In the end, I just went with the original gods and the exact same

    bloodline/domain system as that used in Cerilia (or, rather, the version I

    use with more than a few tweaks and house rules) for simplicity`s sake.



    If one want to do a campaign in Aebrynis without bloodlines my opinion is

    that one needs to tweak the domain system drastically. While I sympathize

    with the desire to use the BR domain system in order to reflect the same

    types of things in another setting the system is itself just too BR

    specific for use in other settings. There are a few fundamental things

    about the BR domain system that are just not appropriate to a setting that

    lacks bloodline and regency in the BR sense.



    Gary

  4. #4
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    While a non-bloodline domain system might be desirable to some, that just won't be BR to me, so that's sort of outside the topic for the purposes of this thread (this is homebrew you know).

    Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines, but haven decided on the details yet. I have, however, decided that the War against Shadow was a time of global struggle between the forces of good and evil. Beyond that I'm open to suggestions.

    B
    Cheers
    Bj°rn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  5. #5
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    I have bloodlines elsewhere people came from far and wide to fight at daesmar many of them for azrai, there was both the land battle and the sea battle, those who fought returned home many of them to non cerilia lands. I have bloodlines spread far and wide with this although the further from cerilia the fewer blooded individuals in general, I also have some very isolated locals with blood lines when the fleets involved in the sea battle were scattered to the four winds, although there distance from the battle gave these men and women week bloodlines.

    then there is trade, all the races but for the vos trade with area's outside cerilia, there is going to be bloodlines spread this way, and then there is the anuirian empire which will have spread bloodlines as well.
    MORNINGSTAR

  6. #6
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Here is some more:

    ADURIA
    I think Aduria and Cerilia have a story that is pretty well woven together (as well as the part of Djapar the Basarji came from). We do know that the same 7 gods were known/worshipped by each of the 6 cultures.

    Then, if one follows my above argument, then the bloodines created at Deismaar might also have found purchaes among the peoples of Aduria (mostly Azrai perhaps). Add to this a number of refugees/remants of armies that returned to their homelands/settled elsewhere following the battle, and I think I'll assume there is a fair number of "standard 7" bloodlines in Aduria.

    The main derivation will be that of Azrai, but a sprinkling of of the others besides; thsi sounds right by me, and Aduria will then not only be a place where nature is rough and harsh, but where many lands will be rules by scions of Azrai (then there would probably be awnsheghlien in Aduria as well).

    ORIENTAL DJAPAR
    I'm envisioning something else for the OA part of Djapar. Here the gods created powerful avatars which waged the war between light and shadow, not only in the heavens, but on the earth as well. What I haven't really decided is wheter the gods of the OA pantheon are different aspects of the "standard 7" or entirely new entities.

    If they are just reps of the 7, then the bloodlines of OA Djapar would still be of the 7 basic derivations, even if none were inherited from Deismaar. If not, then we're talking new derivations.

    B
    Cheers
    Bj°rn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  7. #7
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Originally posted by graham anderson@Jan 10 2005, 03:26 PM
    I have bloodlines elsewhere people came from far and wide to fight at daesmar many of them for azrai, there was both the land battle and the sea battle, those who fought returned home many of them to non cerilia lands.
    I can also envision that quite a few heroes from outside were drawn to the fight, both on land and sea, and that some of these got blooded and returned back home. That, and 1500 years, have probably contributed to spreadign the 7 derivations a little.

    However, for my purposes, this isn't enough - so there will be additional sources for bloodlines as well.

    B
    Cheers
    Bj°rn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  8. #8
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    Just a little brainstorm:
    In BR, bloodlines give such a big leg up to rulers that the introduction of bloodlines to other parts of the world could drastically influence the power structure. It is interesting to think of the consequences of the various bloodline spreading mechanisms you mentioned. Blooded heros returning from Desimar might have carved out a large empire in the distant blood-poor lands (a la Genghis Khan). This mechanism alone might be enough to account for the majority of blooded individuals at present. In two thousand years, the original rulers would have created a vast number of decendants. Rulers tend to have longer lifespans and more opportunities to breed. Polygamy in a OA setting might also bump up the number of scions.

    As an interesting side note, geneticists have found a wide spread marker on the Y chromosone. This marker is found all over Asia and Eastern Europe. Something like .5% of the entire population of Asia has the marker (im not exact on the number). This marker appears to be a particular mutation of a marker found in a small Central Asian ethnic group. By comparing the number of defects present in the marker today to the original marker in the ethnic group, it is estimated that the split of the marker from this group occured around the time of Genghis Khan. Genghis, his brothers, and cousins who rose to power together were probably the source of this Y chromosone. That small ethnic group stayed in power all over Asia for several generations and practiced polygamy. Blooded decendants in the BR world would have stayed in power even longer.

    Even on Earth survival of the fittest is a powerful mechanism, more so in the world of gods and monsters.

    Cerelian conquerors might have had a similar effect. So might have the few scions who were blooded due to their affinity to the old gods not their proximity to the battle.
    If you have some mechanism you like flavor-wise, then I dont think the number of decendants at present is a big sticking point for realism or consistency.

  9. #9
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    My thought is that the overwhelming bloodlines would originate from the survivors of the Desimaar battle. This mean that those suvivors would be on Cerilia and Aduria primarily. Now there would a very small percentage that would have gone back to Djapar from the Basarji survivors, and what left of the Masetian people (that were the best sailors at the time.) Now their might be some intermixing with the other cultures because of the Andurian, Brecht or Khinasi 'trade' missions. The destruction of an enitre mountain and land bridge would have bee tremndous event that would have sent durt and debris way into the atmosphere. It is concievable that these other cultures could have their own original bloodlines.

    Now, remember whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Meaning that elves, Drawves, halflings , humanoids and even other creature would have bloodlines, to

  10. #10
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Hi,

    So far I've had two relatively original ideas for bloodlines the didn't originate directly from Deismaar. While the battle at Deismaar and the passing of 1500 years of time might have caused the 7 common derivations to spread over the globe, I'm also looking to incorporate some new elements here.

    OA DJAPAR
    For OA Djapar I've decided to go with a version of the War against Shadow that saw the gods bestow bloodlines to their greatest champions. After the war the bloodlines remained. I haven't yet decided wheter or not the OA DJAPARI worshipped the same 7 gods as the folk from Aduria, so that decision will determine whether we have just the same 7 derivations or some new ones.

    UNNAMED CONTINENT
    For the as-of-now unnamed continent west of Aduria, I have a different idea. Here I see the people rising against their gods (or maybe just their avatars), eventually destoying them and stealing their bloodlines for themselves. As with OA Djapar I haven't decided wheter these are the same 7 gods, or a bunch of new ones.

    B
    Cheers
    Bj°rn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

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