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  1. #1
    JulesMrshn@aol.co
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    A few ramblings on Magic

    I have reciently been thinking on the eact effects of some realm
    spells in Birthright. The first I thought about was Warding. So I decided to
    put my rather strange mind to work and come up with what I think is are some
    good rules that are the effect of warding... What happens when the mists go
    up, and the land is sealed!

    1) Riots! A warding spell, if the realm's army isn't there, riots begin in
    larger provinces. The population panics and theybegin to get ruff.

    2)Bandits. Definatly bandits emirge in force. I would say at least a units
    worth, maybe the lvl of the province worth...

    3) Militia. Well, mists arrise and bandits are most likely going to emirge,
    so raise an army! When wardings go up, the ruler can raise an army... no
    cost! This represents that the soldiers/farmers/artisans want to protect
    their homes from bandits. As soon as the warding is down, the units disband.
    I figure maybe 1 infantry, 1 archers and all the rest levies.

    That is all I have right now. So I would like some other's perspectives on
    what happens when the warding goes up. Remember, noone who is not in the
    wizard magic field knows when the mist is going down, and even then it can be
    extended longer...

  2. #2
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    A few ramblings on Magic

    JulesMrshn@aol.com wrote:

    > That is all I have right now. So I would like some other's perspectives on
    > what happens when the warding goes up. Remember, noone who is not in the
    > wizard magic field knows when the mist is going down, and even then it can be
    > extended longer...

    Hmmm. Interesting.... Let's see what I can spitball here.

    1. It seems like it would be pretty difficult to collect taxes from a warded
    province.

    2. Being warded might upset the population--loss of loyalty?

    3. A regent shouldn't be able to muster troops in a warded province. Such
    recruitment would require going around to the people and collecting volunteers.
    Kinda hard if there is mist everywhere that blocks movement.

    4. No battles? Despite the last few scenes of the film Excalibur, I'm under the
    impression that if the whole provinces was shrouded in mist it might be very easy
    for an army (in BR armies often aren't more than 10,000 men) to miss each other
    entirely in a province. Even if they didn't how would commanders order them
    about. Vision on the battlefield is HUGELY important for both the combatants and
    the commanders.

    5. Cuts all trade routes to, from or through that provinces. (This one ought to
    be a gimme.)

    That's the stuff off the top of my head. What do you guys think?

    Gary

  3. #3
    JNeighb934@aol.co
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    A few ramblings on Magic

    In a message dated 05/04/99 0:17:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
    GeeMan@linkline.com writes:

    > No battles? Despite the last few scenes of the film Excalibur, I'm under
    > the
    > impression that if the whole provinces was shrouded in mist it might be
    very
    > easy
    > for an army (in BR armies often aren't more than 10,000 men) to miss each
    > other
    > entirely in a province. Even if they didn't how would commanders order
    them
    > about. Vision on the battlefield is HUGELY important for both the
    > combatants and
    > the commanders.

    I was under the impression that only the borders of the province are actually
    enshrouded in mist.

  4. #4
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    A few ramblings on Magic

    On Tue, 4 May 1999, GeeMan wrote:

    > JulesMrshn@aol.com wrote:
    >
    > > That is all I have right now. So I would like some other's perspectives on
    > > what happens when the warding goes up. Remember, noone who is not in the
    > > wizard magic field knows when the mist is going down, and even then it can be
    > > extended longer...
    >
    > Hmmm. Interesting.... Let's see what I can spitball here.
    >
    > 1. It seems like it would be pretty difficult to collect taxes from a warded
    > province.
    >
    > 2. Being warded might upset the population--loss of loyalty?
    >
    > 3. A regent shouldn't be able to muster troops in a warded province. Such
    > recruitment would require going around to the people and collecting volunteers.
    > Kinda hard if there is mist everywhere that blocks movement.

    I've always thought that one of the cheif advantages of a feudal system in
    Cerilia is to be prepared for just this sort of thing. If a province is
    warded by a hostile wizard, at least there is a clearly-demarkated
    surrogate-ruler in the province, able to take over temporarily (until the
    ward goes down). Now, this person wouldn't be a regent, but WOULD be an
    authority figure (perhaps a de-facto lieutennant for the duration?). As
    such, he might be able to do such things as collect taxes, muster armies
    and agitate in the province/provinces, although he wouldn't be able to
    spend RP unless the warded area happened to include a priest who can cast
    the Investiture spell (and a source of RP for the spell, I suppose). This
    might even make an interesting adventure for non-regent PC's. Of course,
    the de-facto lieutennant may decided that she LIKES ruling, and if the
    people were happy with her success, the landed regent might end up with a
    Great Captain event when the ward went down.

    > 5. Cuts all trade routes to, from or through that provinces. (This one ought to
    > be a gimme.)

    I agree on this.

    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

  5. #5
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    A few ramblings on Magic

    Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:

    > I've always thought that one of the cheif advantages of a feudal system in
    > Cerilia is to be prepared for just this sort of thing. If a province is
    > warded by a hostile wizard, at least there is a clearly-demarkated
    > surrogate-ruler in the province, able to take over temporarily (until the
    > ward goes down). Now, this person wouldn't be a regent, but WOULD be an
    > authority figure (perhaps a de-facto lieutennant for the duration?). As
    > such, he might be able to do such things as collect taxes, muster armies
    > and agitate in the province/provinces, although he wouldn't be able to
    > spend RP unless the warded area happened to include a priest who can cast
    > the Investiture spell (and a source of RP for the spell, I suppose). This
    > might even make an interesting adventure for non-regent PC's. Of course,
    > the de-facto lieutennant may decided that she LIKES ruling, and if the
    > people were happy with her success, the landed regent might end up with a
    > Great Captain event when the ward went down.

    Hmm. Interesting. This does kind of require a lot of independant action on the part
    of an NPC who the player-regent has had very little actual interaction with. I don't
    like to give my players that much leeway, personally, but I like your points. In
    general, I think there should be some sort of restriction on the amount of troops that
    a regent can raise in a warded province, because: A) he can't get his orders through
    as easily demanding conscription, B) It's harder to get a cartload of money into the
    province to pay for this conscription, C) Same with equipment, armor, weapons, food
    and the sundries that troops require. Existing stores could certainly account for
    some of this, but being warded should have some effect on this sort of thing.

    How about this: A province can normally raise units of troops equal to its province
    level, right? What if a warded one can only raise units equal to half its province
    level, rounded down? That sounds like a decent compromise....

    Gary

  6. #6
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    A few ramblings on Magic

    JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:

    > I was under the impression that only the borders of the province are actually
    > enshrouded in mist.

    Huh. For some reason I always assumed the whole place was shrouded in mists....

    Gary

  7. #7
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    A few ramblings on Magic

    On Tue, 4 May 1999, GeeMan wrote:

    > Hmm. Interesting. This does kind of require a lot of independant
    action on the part
    > of an NPC who the player-regent has had very little actual interaction
    with. I don't
    > like to give my players that much leeway, personally, but I like your
    points. In
    > general, I think there should be some sort of restriction on the amount
    of troops that
    > a regent can raise in a warded province, because: A) he can't get his
    orders through
    > as easily demanding conscription, B) It's harder to get a cartload of
    money into the
    > province to pay for this conscription, C) Same with equipment, armor,
    weapons, food
    > and the sundries that troops require. Existing stores could certainly
    account for
    > some of this, but being warded should have some effect on this sort of
    thing.

    Well, there's nothing to say that the NPC is necessarily completely loyal,
    or that his philosophy of rulership is the same as the regent. For
    example, he may decide that the best decision is to raise lots of levies,
    thus reducing the province level. Or he may decide to take advantage of
    the situation to "pay back" a rival--perhaps reducing a temple or guild
    holding to zero with the troops. But I think it would be a significant
    advantage. I disagree that he would have a hard time demanding
    conscription--in a feudal system, each lord is the final authority for
    those in his fief, except inasmuch as his authority is limited by any sort
    of charter, issued decrees, or direct commands by his liege. I would think
    that Anuireans are well aware of the dangers of the Warding spell, and
    that the highest-ranking noble in the warded provinces are EXPECTED to
    take over and represent the regent when such disasters strike. But I agree
    that resource limitations may be a problem.

    >
    > How about this: A province can normally raise units of troops equal to
    its province
    > level, right? What if a warded one can only raise units equal to half
    its province
    > level, rounded down? That sounds like a decent compromise....

    Sounds pretty good to me.

    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

  8. #8
    Joao Clark Medeiros
    Guest

    A few ramblings on Magic

    Another obvious use for warding is to trap armies. Imagine a ploy in which a unit
    serves as a decoy and lures a country's army into a province and then a wizard
    casts warding around that province. BANG. You have an entire country exposed to
    foreign invasion. By the time the army is actually able to do something about it
    then their homeland will be gone and they will have no means of support.

    Bearcat

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  9. #9
    Mark A Vandermeulen
    Guest

    A few ramblings on Magic

    On Wed, 5 May 1999, Joao Clark Medeiros wrote:

    > Another obvious use for warding is to trap armies. Imagine a ploy in which a unit
    > serves as a decoy and lures a country's army into a province and then a wizard
    > casts warding around that province. BANG. You have an entire country exposed to
    > foreign invasion. By the time the army is actually able to do something about it
    > then their homeland will be gone and they will have no means of support.

    An interesting observation. Generally, military theory says that you
    should fight a battle only when you have a decisive advantage of numbers.
    However, the Ward Spell might give reason for Cerilian generals to rethink
    this doctrine. You DON'T want all of your units in one place, when there's
    a possibility that they could become magically trapped. It might be best
    in Cerilia to send in enough troops to effectively deal with the enemy,
    but no more than necessary.

    Mark VanderMeulen
    vander+@pitt.edu

  10. #10
    Pieter Sleijpen
    Guest

    A few ramblings on Magic

    Joao Clark Medeiros wrote:
    >
    > Another obvious use for warding is to trap armies. Imagine a ploy in which a unit
    > serves as a decoy and lures a country's army into a province and then a wizard
    > casts warding around that province. BANG. You have an entire country exposed to
    > foreign invasion. By the time the army is actually able to do something about it
    > then their homeland will be gone and they will have no means of support.
    >

    This does sound like a sound tactic, but puting into work is rather
    difficult. The casting of the spell takes a full month, meaning that you
    have to get the enemy within the province at the end of 4 full war
    moves, that is a minimum of 4 provinces. It will take a lot of planning
    and luck to do that. Unless, you know the enemy wants to conquer the
    place... You also want to do it in enemy territory. When armies don't
    get their salary (and that will be impossible with a ward in effect),
    they do tend to get out of control. Pillaging the province will be a
    very likely result.

    Still, the threat would certainly prevent general making one large army,
    unless they have a powerful mage at their side (transport, teleport) of
    maybe a priest with 'find the path' spell...

    Hmmm....

    This discussion makes me wonder if you could disturb the casting of
    realm spells by tracking down the wizard and attacking him? That would
    certainly be a very nice adventure hook: "Find the enemy wizard, before
    he can ward our border province with the castle in it."

    Pieter Sleijpen

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