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Thread: Reviving the line
04-30-1999, 02:55 AM #1Craig DalrympleGuest
Reviving the line
Ok, I'm going to de-lurk for a few minutes and condense some
ideas and share a few of my own. I think we can have a positive
effect on the BR line, and it's hopes of a return if we are an
Remember, this is not all my thinking, and my feet stink so I am
a little out of sorts ;)
1. Our online community must thrive.
Without this there will be little
apparent interest in Birthright, and little potential monetary payoff
for WOTC to revive it. If they see that they have some insane people
developing BR online, they might think that they could put out a feeler
product and see how it sells.
Last years "Reunion" for Al-Qadim was this kind of effort. It kinda stank
which was sad. If it was a real solid product, some of my Qadim buddies
would have snagged it. Instead, one of us cut it off by being the first and
last to purchase it.
BR surely could be worth such a product. If they did a good job with it, it
could even make money! While we are on the money subject...
There are a number of people putting out good stuff here on the list and
on the websites. This stuff is replacing product we would willingly pay for.
TSR has to see this, and it's incentive to put something "official" out and
then generate some profit on our excitement.
All of this says: Don't give up hope. We can develop the setting without
and by doing so, prove that they should take another stab at it. It worked
the Greyhawk fans, why not us??
2. We should make regular contact with TSR in a tangible format demanding
a revival of the product line.
This should be a "real" contact, not email. Email is good for getting
but there's nothing like a stack of letters to prove it to the corporate
equal motivated consumers. Motivated consumers equal money!!! :)
To further this, I will personally take on a quarterly mailing to TSR for as
I can stand it. Any of you who wish to join me, can send a one page
to me. On this page you should demand the line be returned, and show them
your willingness to purchase new materials. :) Also, tell them that only a
troglodyte wouldn't want to bring back such a good line. I will put my real
snail mail address at the bottom of this post. If you want to put your
on paper and send it to me, I'll forward it to TSR in ONE BIG PACKAGE that
hits em hard. This way it shows organization, dedication, and abnormal
effort. All three factors create interest in pleasing us by sparking new
These letters could even indicate what product we want. Just make sure it is
readable. Please do this, I think it would be a very cool wake up call to
Also, a monthly email petition would be wonderful. Someone else care to take
the head of that ship?? We could mass mail them all on the same day each
and then every quarter they could get paper mail. All of which would become
regular and constant organized effort to return attention to our line.
3. The RPGA
Yes, the Role Playing Geeks Association. Not to be confused with Star Trek!
All jokes aside, if you are not a member, you should join. I plan to. Then I
on using this "player driven" network to get modules printed for Cerilia. I
the Living City line is also ideal for our lovely little setting. Living
of the possibilities!!! We could divide real regions of the world into
of Cerilia and have players be the regents. There could be some serious
diplomatic sessions at Cons, more like the White Wolf stuff than AD&D. This
could show the rest of the RPGA the potential of the setting. Imagine going
to a Con and seeing a group of people "role playing" a setting live action
and then doing some setting specific modules at the dice table. The
within the Living City system could be awesome.
Outside of the RPGA being used as a tool for interest. There is nothing
us from running BR games at conventions independantly of the official games.
We could even form an unofficial Birthright Players League and run the same
module worldwide at conventions. Again, this would show coordinated
and there is always somebody willing to jump into an open game during a
convention. These people can then be lured into our little trap :)
5. Gen Con.
We MUST have a presence at the big one. Running a few games or trying
to get corporate sponsorship of a few games would do us wonders at
Gen Con. Maybe we could get some of the people who worked on the
line to help us somehow unofficially?? Mabye a Q&A with Rich, Carrie, Ed,
or Tony (or any of the others not mentioned). If enough of us are going and
such a thing can be pulled off it would be really cool, and also an eye
Also, I am all for dressing up like a bunch of Vos warriors and laying seige
to the TSR booth. Nothing like a bunch of unemployed, union working, blue
collar NPC's holding a Strike to get some attention. I'm not joking either.
long as we are not creating a serious disturbance it could be a valid and
humorous way to draw some attention to the line.
This means: HEAD COUNT! Who's going to Gen Con???? Contact me
and we can organize a meeting off the list so the powers that be don't have
access to our sneak attack plans! :)
6. The magazines.
Send them articles and modules. All the time. Even if they aren't that good.
Force the editors to read and reject your submissions. A few might
get printed. Even if none do, an increase in the volume of BR specific
submissions will again show interest.
7. The Cerilian Council.
Ok, this is something that the Greyhawk community did when I was on AOL.
They got organized, divided up the work, and then kept the line going. This
is essentially an extension of item number one.
I'd like people who want to commit to the dirty work of actually creating
some form of newsletter that reports on the "best" of what we are all
doing. This will create an unofficially official product that can serve as
the town square for what we are all doing. We could even begin to advance
the official timeline beyond 551 MR by incorporating the best of what
we are all doing in our own games. There would be some obvious
subjectiveness here, but life is life, so live it.
A Council can keep the fire alive and organized, and pick up the slack that
TSR is not. We can develop the official online guide to the shadow world as
a community effort. We can maintain a presence at conventions. We can
submit "official" materials to the publications of TSR.
Finally, I can't even begin to dream that I can do this all alone. Nor do I
really want to be the leader of the Council. I want to help out, and keep
the game alive. I'll need lots of help, but I think that a lot can be done
to bring the product back. For now, I'll go for the mass snail mailing
filter position. Send your demands and petetions to me and I will
forward them to TSR as one big envelope. It sure can't hurt.
No bombs please. I already hurt my finger today punching a
computer at work. Hey, it shocked me first!
Craig T. Dalrymple
525 N. Quentin Rd #513
Palatine, IL 60067
P.S. This is not an invite for stalkers. Bugger off wierdo! :P
04-30-1999, 03:46 AM #2BenGuest
Reviving the line
Wow, Craig! You apparently took some time out of your life to write all
that stuff. I think it's time we showed somebody important that we want this
thing back. If we decide to do anything in particular, I'm in.
04-30-1999, 05:49 AM #3Daniel I BellGuest
Reviving the line
> Wow, Craig! You apparently took some time out of your life to write all
> that stuff. I think it's time we showed somebody important that we want this
> thing back. If we decide to do anything in particular, I'm in.
Me too... just as the Empire of Anuire can rise again,
so to can BR!
- -from a guy who is dusting off his Vos Warrior costume
04-30-1999, 06:40 AM #4Jim CooperGuest
Reviving the line
> Wow, Craig! You apparently took some time out of your life to write all that stuff. I think it's time we showed somebody important that we want this thing back.<
I would hope that we already _have_ been noticed. Ed, do 'The People
Responsible for Bringing Back Defunct Product Lines' at WotC know we
exist? Who are they? Isn't Bill Slavicsek the TSR Brand
Marketer/Manager or something like that? What do we have to do to get
them to notice us?
> If we decide to do anything in particular, I'm in.<
Well, I'm not sure if I'm beating a dead dwarf or whatnot here, but we
already have - last year in fact. The Birthright Online City Project
was started for this very reason [to keep BR alive].
Apparently though, , but the majority
of this list seems to be all talk and no action! Or rather, all lurk
and no posting. Neither I nor the other project coordinators (if I'm
not mistaken) of the BROCP have neither heard nor received any new ideas
for this ambitious online drive to keep BR alive - for months now.
Where is all the enthusiasm we saw at the start of 98? Alas, our Grand
Poobah, the Great & Mighty Simon, has retired from the project, in no
small part (only IHMO of course) because of the lack of interest in this
project. Btw, darkstar, are you now the defacto head of this project,
or are we leaderless?
Craig has it right - we need to do this ourselves, but we *all* need to
help if we are going to get noticed by the big-wigs of WotC. If only a
few names on submissions are noticed by those guys at WotC, our hard
work won't work in our favour.
Indeed, I see many great BROCP post-worthy stuff being generated on this
list. All it takes to start is an idea, a question, a query. I can't
see why we should limit ourselves to one small corner of Aebrynis. Who
says that we should limit ourselves to just the Imperial City? For
instance: questions that could turn into articles on the history of
Cerilian dragons; talk about The Gorgon that could turn into a DM's
secret of the Gorgon's Crown submission; guidelines on the background of
the gheallie sidhe; a catalog on new Powers of Cerilia; a write-up on
the Isle of Caelcorwynn turned into a Player's Secret supplement; an
adventure supplement like KotGD within the land of adventurers: Aerenwe,
We already have a place to store all our great ideas - Ian has been kind
enough to oversee this website. Keith also has a sister site that will
double for extra space. Manni does warcards. In short, we've got the
talent all here. All we need are *your* ideas fellow BR fans. Lets do
this and bring back BR!
04-30-1999, 07:24 AM #5Craig DalrympleGuest
Reviving the line
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Cooper
Date: Friday, April 30, 1999 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Reviving the line
>Apparently though, , but the majority
>of this list seems to be all talk and no action! Or rather, all lurk
>and no posting. Neither I nor the other project coordinators (if I'm
>not mistaken) of the BROCP have neither heard nor received any new ideas
>for this ambitious online drive to keep BR alive - for months now.
>Where is all the enthusiasm we saw at the start of 98? Alas, our Grand
>Poobah, the Great & Mighty Simon, has retired from the project, in no
>small part (only IHMO of course) because of the lack of interest in this
>project. Btw, darkstar, are you now the defacto head of this project,
>or are we leaderless?
I guess I owe you an apology. I fond the BROCP some time ago
and got the quick impression that it was only detailing the City
While I would personally find this fascinating, I don't really use the
city much in my campaigns. It's my own personal preference mind
you, not some haughty conceit.
As I am a working man, husband, father, and then gamer I looked
at the main page for the site, thought it looked really great, but wouldn't
be much help for my game, and then never came back.
I suppose I should take another look eh?
THanks for the response though, this is what I was looking for. I
want to find the people who care and help them. Why don't you
do us all a favor and post the URL for the BROCP so I can visit
it later this weekend and see how I can help.
I promise to do so if you promise to send me some snail
mail to forward to TSR
04-30-1999, 08:29 AM #6BenGuest
Reviving the line
Alas I do most of my gaming in Brechtur, so the Online City hasn't
helped me much, either. We need more material about the other lands too.
04-30-1999, 11:16 AM #7Stephen WhiteGuest
Reviving the line
If someone can e-mail me the address of the person to write to at TSR
(WoTC?), I'll send them a snail-mail from here (UK) and try to get a
correspondence going with them.
I'll start the letter now in anticipation.
04-30-1999, 11:39 AM #8Bob CauthronGuest
Reviving the line
I have seen some posts on this thread. To the person who started it,
Craig I believe, I say more power to you, it was a damn fine post, excuse my
langauge. To Jim, who had a worthy reply to it, well said.
I am a person who has played in br since its release years ago. I enjoy
it tremendously, both as a player and a gm. So have other people I have
gamed with. Some still do. My campaign is a mix of things, and it did have
other gms in the past. So it is a hybrid now.
I subscribed to this list primarily to learn how other people viewed
the setting, and secondarily for ideas and so on. Over time, I have realized
that there are many knowledgeable, skilled gms/players on this list.
Exceedingly so (that's a compliment, not a criticism). The sheer depth of
what you listmembers have created and modified is incredible.
While I have absolutely no idea how many people are on this list, I may
not be alone in what I am about to write here. With regards to helping the
br cause, in whatever way, I have very little to offer. I have no computer
skills, nowhere near the depth of data that many seem to have, and I know no
one in the gaming community outside of where I live. My "talent," such as it
is, is that I can take some material and make it halfway interesting. That's
about it. Posting is only done by me when I feel strongly about something,
or I have made the determination that something is pertinent and relevant
(this applies to me).
This is why I am a lurker mostly, and an occasional poster. For others,
they may have equally applicable, if different, reasons for doing so.
The reason I am posting this is to start a potential dialogue on this
issue, which I think is directly related to this thread. Because if gh can
be revived, it is definitely worthwhile to restore br. If I am wasting
bandwidth here, that is not my intention.
04-30-1999, 01:34 PM #9gingerprinceGuest
Reviving the line
>Ok, I'm going to de-lurk for a few minutes and condense some
>ideas and share a few of my own. I think we can have a positive
>effect on the BR line, and it's hopes of a return if we are an
snip all the excellent ideas.
Sounds good. Just a couple of things that I want to add, does the
TSR/ WoTC have big ads for this list and the Netbook? If not then they
should do. Secondly, Dragon should have a monthly slot for dead campaign
worlds. There should be room now we've finished that travesty Wyrms of the
I guess we have to make it worth their while by writing good
articles and adventures. BR seems to be lacking a big campaign to drag
people into the world, I guess the Shadow World would have been. Once my
exams are done, I'll chain myself to the PC.
04-30-1999, 04:38 PM #10SidhainGuest
Reviving the line
What's sad is they are reprinting all the drivel AD*D stuff (Council of
Wyrms, Menznoberansan or however tis spellt--no offense to those who like it
but I didn't care for it--I could come up with better campaigns in an
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