Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20
  1. #11
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,018
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    Hi,

    I use 35 points for PC and other "heroic" characters (as opposed to normal elites who get their 25). Bloodline generation is separate from this, but characters CAN choose to nerf their abilitites to up their bloodline a bit.

    That gives a nice standard spread of:

    16 (+10 pts), 15 (+8 pts), 14 (+6 pts), 13 (+5 pts), 12 (+4 pts), 10 (+2 pts) = 35 pts total.

    None of these stats are too broken - even with a 16 you neeed to be 8th level to get an 18 in a stat, and you can't get a 20 until lvl 16, so not many are going to experience that. Still, with 35 points a player CAN max one stat with 18 (+16 pts), but not two or maybe have two with 17 (+26 pts). Even with the later option he still has some points left. I think this is OK for exceptional people (like PCs).

    If you want truly legendary characters try this spread:

    17, 16, 15, 14, 12, 12 = 45 pts total

    Characters no longer have any bad abilities, and have quite a few pretty good ones. He could even start with four 16 (+4 pts) and still have 5 pts left. At this level things start breaking down a bit IMO. Only suitable for a special type of campaign.

    And for the ultimate Epic hero:

    18, 17, 16, 15, 12, 12 = 55 pts total

    Well, what can I say? You could start with two 18 if you wanted, and still have loads of points left! This level really isn't very useful - if you think its OK, then why not play and all 18 character instead :-D

    Ability gains from levels are of course not figured into this, as this is 1st level figures.

    I looked into the Conan d20 setting the other day, and found a new kind of rule. It seems that since Conan has perhaps less magic items that even a hard-case BR campaign, they had introduced a new rule for ability gains from level. In ADDITION to the normal gains, you got +11 to ALL abilities at lvls 6, 10, 14, and 18. Sounds pretty mean to men, but then again the characters won't even have Bull's Strength or any Headbands of Intellect +4...

    Bjørn

    ...but I do think that rolling dice is the only REAL way of rolling up PCs, only some players are too scared (or too lawful, Michael)... ;-)
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  2. #12
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,018
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    Hi,

    I'd really warn against a point-for-point conversion between 2E and 3E for NPCs. It seems to me that designers tend to overdo NPC stats, just to get some bonuses for the NPC's key stats.

    Remember that you needed a 15 (or usually 16) to get even a puny bonus in 2E...

    B
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    125
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    I'm a fan of point based character generation. It gives a balance between the characters and it's all fair, there's none that outshine the others badly.

    I can give an example from a D&D campaign I was in a couple or three years ago. The players rolled their characters. A couple of players got bad rolls, but not bad enough for rerolls, a couple got the okay rolls, where you have a few 14s and a 15. But one on the party did have someone watch over him. He ended out with an average of 17.3 (18, 18, 17, 17, 17, 16), with the lowest stat being a 16. The party was hard to play in. The ubercharacter outshined the other characters in almost all situations and it's not like you really want to tell a player to reroll the character because he has too good stats. I mean, then what's the whole point in rolling stats?

    Since that time, I'm insisting on things being point based. No player outshines the other in stats, or if they do, then it's because of a conscious choice (such as the character with an 18 and little else).

  4. #14
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,018
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    The point is that some players hate points, while other love it (I'm a fan of rolling, since that was the only option back when I started RPGing).

    So I give the player's the option to choose. You risk a bit with the dice, but sometimees it pays of. Thoose who roll usually end up with more extreme stats, and maybe they even get a little better stats average. But generally it balances out, and it is RARE to say the least that a character ends up with 16+ in all stats.

    But if one of my players did, I'd be happy for him, and give him the opportunity to play this really extraordinary character...

    B
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    883
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Green Knight schrieb:



    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    > You can view the entire thread at:

    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...ST&f=36&t=2896

    >

    > Green Knight wrote:

    >...

    >

    >I looked into the Conan d20 setting the other day, and found a new kind of rule. It seems that since Conan has perhaps less magic items that even a hard-case BR campaign, they had introduced a new rule for ability gains from level. In ADDITION to the normal gains, you got +11 to ALL abilities at lvls 6, 10, 14, and 18. Sounds pretty mean to men, but then again the characters won`t even have Bull`s Strength or any Headbands of Intellect +4...

    >

    >

    Really +11 to all abilitys? So an 18th level character would have +44 to

    all his starting abilites?

    Mmmh, Birthright really is a world in which magic is pretty rare also... ;-)



    >...but I do think that rolling dice is the only REAL way of rolling up PCs, only some players are too scared (or too lawful, Michael)... ;-)

    >

    Isn´t that axiomatic nowadys?

    But I have to concur with your sentence - the only way of ROLLING up

    PC´s is to roll dice...

    Rolling Dice is only balanced if you play a lot of different characters

    and bad and good or excellent rolls balance each other out.

    For the one character you might play for a year or so it can mean that

    he is crippled or outshines the other players even at tasks that are not

    his specialty - neither is desirable.

    bye

    Michael

  6. #16
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,475
    Downloads
    34
    Uploads
    8
    I echo Green Knight's opinions - I like the element of chance in ability rolls. If I wanted things less chancy, I wouldn't use dice-based RPG systems (certainly not the ever-random d20 system&#33.

    I generally like my PC's to have raw ability scores, it gives them access to more feats and generally better survivability and versatility (something that D&D characters still lack IMO). Especially if you're only running a small party of PC's (less than 4), D&D can be very harsh to them. CR's and EL's seem to be based on on a party of PC specialists (single class characters) - a party of all multiclass characters is almost always weaker as a group. But in small groups, the multiclass versatility is necessary to keep things interesting and diverse.

    So in a point-based system...yeah, I'd give more points in general, but I'd also alter it according to how many PC's I expect to be participating through the campaign, and the general level of challenge you plan to throw at them as a DM.

    Osprey

  7. #17
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,018
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    Originally posted by ConjurerDragon@Jan 7 2005, 04:50 PM
    Really +11 to all abilitys? So an 18th level character would have +44 to all his starting abilites? Mmmh, Birthright really is a world in which magic is pretty rare also...
    No, the ability increases at lvl 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 are still the same - only for 1 stat. Only those for levels 6, 10, 14, and 18 are for all stats. But it's still pretty much...didn't say I liked it even, just wanted to let you know.

    B
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  8. #18
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,018
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    Originally posted by Osprey@Jan 7 2005, 04:52 PM
    Especially if you're only running a small party of PC's (less than 4), D&D can be very harsh to them. CR's and EL's seem to be based on on a party of PC specialists (single class characters) - a party of all multiclass characters is almost always weaker as a group. But in small groups, the multiclass versatility is necessary to keep things interesting and diverse.
    This I most definitely agree with. DnD is really for 4-6 players, all of them narrowly focuse specialists, maxed out in their areas of expertise. In small parties with only 2-3 people (or maybe a single one), its harder...

    B
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Edinburgh, UK
    Posts
    190
    Downloads
    5
    Uploads
    0
    Originally posted by Green Knight@Jan 7 2005, 08:16 PM
    This I most definitely agree with. DnD is really for 4-6 players, all of them narrowly focuse specialists, maxed out in their areas of expertise. In small parties with only 2-3 people (or maybe a single one), its harder...
    If you're a lone ranger in the forest it doesn't help no matter how good you abilities are as long as you roll poorly enough with the dice...

    E

  10. #20
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,018
    Downloads
    20
    Uploads
    0
    Originally posted by Don E@Jan 8 2005, 01:19 AM
    If you're a lone ranger in the forest it doesn't help no matter how good you abilities are as long as you roll poorly enough with the dice...

    E
    This is a man speaking of personal, bitter experience. Might I have been the DM, and this ranger on his way from north Shieldhaven in search of employment and adventure?

    B
    Cheers
    Bjørn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.