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  1. #1
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    I'm sitting and generating a Birthright character once again (Yeah, it has been done quite often) and it just appears to me that 32 points for the point buy system is nowhere near the points that such a character should be generated on.

    Just to compare with the published characters and notice that bloodline cost hasn't been included:
    Aeric Boeruine: 52 points
    Caliedhe Dosiere: 50 points
    Darian Avan: 56 points
    Shaemes: 43 points
    Theodor Profiev: 52 points
    Kalien: 49 points
    The Wizard: 33 points
    Graechar: 29 points (But he's ancient, so there's probably at least 9 points that has gone in penalties)
    Vasily: 42 points
    Kalilah: 51 points
    Grimm Graybeard: 57 points

    And that's just those mentioned in Ruins of Empire.

    I believe that the character generation in a Birthright campaign should be closer to being 40 or 50 points. Birthright characters aren't sissies, they are true heroes.

  2. #2
    Administrator Arius Vistoon's Avatar
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    you forget one point for 4 level, no ?

    i find for
    Aeric boeruine 45
    wizard 27 ( but she has an "unkow heritage" )
    .....
    but it'snt a character "of creation" and perharps they are power ( blood capacity for exemple ) that modified these...

  3. #3
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Another reason why I don't use point-based character generation.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  4. #4
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    Some experiments in my own campaign with various

    characters of different ability scores lead me and one

    of my friends to implement an option for players

    during character generation: An extra 25 points for

    ECL +1 or an extra 50 points for ECL +2 works

    suprisingly well.



    These experiments were done using 3rd edition rules;

    I`m not very familiar with 3.5.







    =====

    While I wrought out these fitful Danaan rhymes,

    My heart would brim with dreams about the times

    When we bent down above the fading coals

    And talked of the dark folk who live in souls

    Of passionate men, like bats in the dead trees;

    And of the wayward twilight companies

    Who sigh with mingled sorrow and content,

    Because their blossoming dreams have never bent

    Under the fruit of evil and of good:

    And of the embattled flaming multitude

    Who rise, wing above wing, flame above flame,

    And, like a storm, cry the Ineffable Name,

    And with the clashing of their sword-blades make

    A rapturous music, till the morning break

    And the white hush end all but the loud beat

    Of their long wings, the flash of their white feet.







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    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  5. #5
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    All right the discussion seems to be on the BRCS-playtest version and not the the sanctioned Chap 2 version. There is no ECL adjustment (a 3.0 term) or LA for the "sanctioned" version.

    Use the "sanctioned" version and the numbers for a 1st level character will be a whole lot closer. For character with levels in scion class they get an increase to their bloodline score depending on the number of levels taken. There is no ability score increase for 4th level in this case since there is no correlation for bloodline score to an ability after character generation.

    Higher levels characters, such as those referenced, are quite likely to have gained bloodline score increases through wise leadership and/or from bloodtheft along the way. Pretty much nothing has been written to account for all of those years those characters did things so it is entirely up to the DM to fill in, hence mechanically it still falls into the ranges set up by the 3.5 mechanics.

    Regardless, not every character in 2nd will translate into an equivalent 3.0 character - just can't happen. Some suspension of the system will be inevitable to capture the iconic characters from 2nd ed, but the idea is to come as close as possible to include them mechanically.

    The other method is to use any method desired to create a character but include the bloodline score as one of the ability scores at creation. This is the tradeoff for being a scion and correlates to the 10% exp bonus that non-blooded gained in 2nd ed. A player decides whether or not to emphasize his character's role as a scon or as a standard character, but every choice has a consequence.
    Duane Eggert

  6. #6
    Administrator Arius Vistoon's Avatar
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    Originally posted by irdeggman@Dec 21 2004, 04:37 PM
    For character with levels in scion class they get an increase to their bloodline score depending on the number of levels taken. There is no ability score increase for 4th level in this case since there is no correlation for bloodline score to an ability after character generation.
    That fell under the sens but it is true that would be specified.
    for me, I more thought about the capacity "Heightened Ability" which is given +2 to an ability score.


    Regardless, not every character in 2nd will translate into an equivalent 3.0 character - just can't happen. Some suspension of the system will be inevitable to capture the iconic characters from 2nd ed, but the idea is to come as close as possible to include them mechanically.
    i agree with this.

  7. #7
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    That fell under the sens but it is true that would be specified.
    for me, I more thought about the capacity "Heightened Ability" which is given +2 to an ability score.
    From the sanctioned Chap 2:

    Starting characters that are scions have an ability score that is not possessed by non-blooded characters. This ability score determines the bloodline power of a character in much the same way that their strength ability score determines the character’s physical strength. This seventh ability score must be generated during character creation following the rules for ability score determination presented in Chapter One: Characters.

    Once the initial ability score is determined this number is then doubled to determine the character’s bloodline score

    Also Heightened Ability from the same source:


    A scion with this attribute gains a +2 increase in the applicable ability score. The abilities associated with each derivation are as follows: Anduiras - Charisma or Strength (choose which one or roll for it when this ability is gained); Basaïa - Intelligence; Brenna - Dexterity; Reynir - Constitution; Vorynn - Wisdom; Azrai - Charisma or Intelligence (choose which one or roll for it when this ability is gained).
    It lists specifically what it applies to, i.e., the base 6 ability scores and which bloodlines gain which ones.

    Basically after initial character generation there is no bloodline ability score. It is called a bloodline score (to avoid any confusion with any of the base 6 abilities).
    Duane Eggert

  8. #8
    Administrator Arius Vistoon's Avatar
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    :blink: :blink: :blink:

    we say the same thing, we agree
    I said just that in his calculation of ability ( not blood score) it did not hold counts some parameter as 4 level up or capacity/power such as Heightened Ability

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Dec 20 2004, 08:49 PM
    Another reason why I don't use point-based character generation.
    given my ability roles for my character in your campaign, I am glad to
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  10. #10
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    The characters referred to are really the cream of the crop as it were. Although it is fair to assume that heirs receive the best training and schooling their realm can provide for the most part. 32 is considered for campaigns that are deemed High Fantasy (Forgotten Realms, Eberron). While Birthright does not have the same feel, it is a game about Realm making and realm building so I would definetly consider it a High Fantasy but of a different vein and would say that any point-buy system for BR should be at 32 and not 28.

    While rolling dice does add a certain realism, as a DM we must sometimes weigh realism vs fun. If we wanted realism we'd be playing Rolemaster. While it might be fun for 1 or a select few players to have very high stats, it would reduce the enjoyment of the players that roll below the curve.

    D&D is a very social game and part of that is for everyone to have fun.

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